Posted on 02/22/2007 12:54:54 AM PST by neverdem

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February 21, 2007, 9:17 a.m.
Promoting Failure
The Army gets the lead out.
By Mackubin Thomas Owens
One, I don't understand why Casey was offered the CofS job and two, I can't believe he took it.
From the administration's vantage point, it may have been a way to keep him on the reservation and from Casey's, a way to save face?
We need to find a General Grant that will win the Iraqi War for us.
for three full decades our military leadership has been heavily filtered through a "dont be mean to the enemy" program.
Those who could not buckle under and get on board with the idiot PC dronisms and dogma that sprang up in defense to the constant "American soldiers are all mass murderers" propaganda of our domestic born traitors and enemy sympathizers were forced into retirement or passed over for promotion until they were forced out.
It is more a testament to a deep down resolve and steadfastness of the personality type that tends to make a career out of military service that we have a military that can fight at all. There was even some serious effort to reduce our military to a completely non functional size during the '90s "peace dividend".
In many ways we dont even have a warfare military anymore, it is now more aligned to a lawfare type orientation.
It is well established in the subconscious of most of our nation that our military are nothing but thugs and can not be trusted to ever make decisions without a lawyer watching over their shoulder and giving permission for actions to be taken.
Aint gonna happen. Might as well hope for space aliens to descend from the heavens and kill our enemy for us.
Anyone attempting to fight this war any harder than it's been fought will be arrested, tried and spend the rest of his natural life in prison.
Our military knows full well that the enemy that stands against them in the field is no more dangerous than the enemy that dominates their own homefont.
The administration's first mistake was to fight the war on the cheap. The country should have been fully mobilized within days after 9-11, authority to draft demanded from congress, and martial law established. Had none of that been needed, the president and congress could have backed off, but our adversaries should have gotten the message they would have to fight all of us and not just our volunteer military. Instead, we got, "We've been attacked, now go shopping."
You're working your ideas in a vacuum that just doesn't exist.
1. We have an all volunteer military. The discipline and training standards are not compatible with a conscript military.
2. We do have sufficient manpower and material to do this and any other job currently at, on or near the horizon. What we do not have is faith in our civilian population and at least half our political system. Treason has become so trendy that none dare even call it treason any more.
I'll say it again, because this is the single most overlooked and under appreciated issue going atm. Our military is the product of 3 full decades of abuse and destructive social engineering. We gave in to the stalinist and postmodernist propagandists long ago and there ain't no going back without domestic bloodshed.
No draft, no amount of gearing up, no amount of any sort of adjustment would have made any difference at all to where we are now. Our politics is dominated by traitors who openly play their treason and it is our fault and our fault alone. No one is to blame for any of this but the citizens of this country. We let the traitors infest our schools, politics and national level security organizations and didn't lift a finger to stop it and even now refuse to get up off our degenerate asses and start doing what must be done if we wish to survive.
No society in the entire record of human existence has survived while allowing open betrayal by their citizenry during a time of war.
This failure if it is a failure that you are wanting to place upon our military is only a failure by the people of this country as a whole, not the military. It is operating as it has been redesigned to operate since the last time we allowed the cowards and enemy sympathizers and openly treasonous scum to win for a foreign enemy in the '70s.
You want to see the face of who's to blame? Look in the mirror. And I see who's to blame when I look in mine. Each of us are guilty.
Thanks, another contribution to my growing list of redundancies.
We have an all volunteer military.
Stating the obvious.
The discipline and training standards are not compatible with a conscript military.
Didja ever serve in a conscripted military?
We do have sufficient manpower and material to do this and any other job currently at, on or near the horizon.
Have you noticed how long it's taking to get and extra 21,500 troops into theater, let alone, in position to knock on doors?
No society in the entire record of human existence has survived while allowing open betrayal by their citizenry during a time of war.
Re read my reference to martial law. That would be a suspension of civil liberties.
Look, I'm no fan of FDR, but what he did after Dec 7th was a model. BTW, over 10,000,000 men were drafted. The Axis powers were forced to fight the entire US. They were forced to fight our economic and industrial might.
I believe you're flailing at windmills.
flailing at windmills, yeah. sure'nuff probably. We'll just ignore the complete overhaul in command philosphy and orientation that occured from the late 70s through to the present.
Forget all the officers who were forced out due to not being sensitive enough to whatever priority the PC drones could dream up at the moment. Forget all the training modifications and expansions of "other than war" practices that have been folded into our military. Forget all the indoctrination and forced complaince into warfighting methodologies that can be considered sanitary and harmless enough to pass muster with our most ardent enemy sympathizers.
Yep, it's all the emperors fault. The Pres didnt make us plant victory gardens so that's where it all went wrong.
And yes, I have worked with conscript armies.
How long to get troops into theater is a logistics and transportation issue. They are arriving as scheduled. You may not like the schedule but it was created as part of the project. All the Presidential orders in the world aint gonna make airplanes fly any faster.
They are in possition to knock on doors as per their schedule to be in possition to knock on doors. Again, you may not like that schedule but I doubt that had much impact on the planning considerations.
We are not fighting a world war yet. Not in any real sense. We may well be soon and I do believe such a full scale confligration to be nearly unavoidable but we aint there yet. This is still regionally specific conflict.
Your suggestion on martial law, I'll admit I missed that one in earlier reading but that's still a pipe dream. Nothing's gonna fix what's broken now except for a full blown fight between those who still remain loyal to the US and those who've sold themselves over to our enemy, who ever that enemy may be at any time for any reason. It's gonna take much more than simply calling a suspension of civil liberties and putting national guardsmen in the streets. It's going to take a full redress of all the idiocy and corruption that's been slimed all over our legal and civil concepts of who we are and what we stand.
Even the definitions of our baseline ideals have been twisted and morphed into near complete uselessness by constant misrepresentation, propagandising, and outright decietful manipulation.
A simple case in point. How often do you hear a soldier say "we serve so they can say/do whatever they want". That is blatant bullshit. It is a necessary defensive reaction to the constant hammering of hostile propagandists just frothing at the mouth at any accusation levied against our troops, regardless of counter evidence or origin of the accusation. I never served so that my fellow citizens can freely commit treason and openly act in concert with the goals of our enemy without fear of any repercussion at all. I do not know of any soldier, sailor, airman or Marine that does or has, either. But the words must be said or hammers will fall.
Our military command structure is what's left over after all those who were deemed too insensitive or too mean or too harsh to comply with the bizarro social engineering projects that have dominated our culture for as long as any of these current crop of officers can have served.
Our military is functioning exactly as it has been redisgned to function. Overly sterile, overly cautious, overly hesitant and overly restrained. That is by design and purpose. It was a bad design and a malicious purpose but we let the PC drones get away with it for all those years.
We are not fighting a world war yet. Not in any real sense. We may well be soon and I do believe such a full scale confligration to be nearly unavoidable but we aint there yet. This is still regionally specific conflict.
The president could have gotten anything he wanted out of congress and the American people in the days and weeks following 9-11. Congress would have agreed with a draft bill, an emergency declaration that suspended civil rights, censorship, etc., and the mobilization of any industry as needed. Now, it would be impossible for any elected official to even suggest these things in public. We wouldn't have had to wait for another attack. When we're attacked again there will be anarchy before they'll be cooperation.
I know what I am suggesting is hindsight but I saw it at the time and I'm sure others did too.
And yes, I have worked with conscript armies.
What does that mean?
Yep, it's all the emperors fault. The Pres didnt make us plant victory gardens so that's where it all went wrong.
. . . making lite of what is a serious issue, I don't think, is the way to go. In times of crisis the American people look for leadership. I know I did, and I was disappointed. The buck really does stop in the Oval Office.
That ossified culture is our greatest internal weakness. The Army is a politically correct war machine that is in many ways blind to it's own contradictions and failures. They promote force protection over mission accomplishment, and media-averse micromanagement over command flexibility.
This has rendered the Army-at-large practically paralyzed against the insurgency. They're stuck conducting drive-by presence patrols and sweeping large numbers of suspects into detention, most of which are released within a few days. The only true offensive arm is the upper tier SOF community. They have the flexibility to focus like a laser on their targets. It's a great capability, but a very limited, resource intensive one. It's also not proven to eliminate terrorists organizations faster than they can regenerate. This method of using the military to be a presence force, while using SOF to surgically remove terrorists was a favorite of SecDef Rumsfeld and the upper echelon commanders. It minimized the chance that the bulk of the military would have to immerse itself in murky situations, and left the terrorist hunting to the pros.
The problem is that this model doesn't work.
It's still a conventional mindset, in a land where there's no conventional enemy. The real unconventional warfare experts, the Green Berets, and their community based tactics, have been sidelined or used for combat missions. The Green Berets unconventional warfare philosophy grew out of the Philippine insurrection, where the Army learned to abandon their "cowboy and Indian" mentality, and to immerse themselves in the local culture and communities. It was awkward at first, but eventually it turned a bloody stalemate into a resounding victory.
Sadly, the U.S.Army of 2007 is far less flexible than that of 1907. They adamantly refuse to change, and will continue to fail until they do. Not to fail on the field of battle, which they will not, but fail to attain our national security goals, which, at this rate, they will.
For one thing, most of those officer billiets are dead weight. They simply provide for resume rounding career experiences, and have no real value added to the military otherwise.
Second, the U.S. Army actually requires fewer officers than the average military. Why? Because the U.S. Army NCO Corp handles many, many fuctions that are purely officer work in many other nations. When working side by side with other militaries, as I have, they are constantly amazed at how much our NCOs are actually running things.
Retiring 2/3s of our obscenely bloated senior officer corps tomorrow and eliminating excess billets would be an excellent first step.
We'd do better with either Hulegu, the younger Scipio, who destroyed Carthage in the Third Punic War, or Uncle Billy.
There are more generals in the Army now than there were in WWII when we had over 12,000,000 men and women in uniform.
I agree, we've created too many positions at the top, but let's not stop with the officer corps. There are hundreds if not thousands of good people holding down positions of CSM at levels all the way to CSM of the Army. If I were king for a day I'd abolish all CSM positions above the Bn. level. Okay, maybe Brigade level. Good NCOs need to be with the troops, not in an office next to the general's office.
from the article:
The operational concept was clear and hold. On the one hand, no force, conventional or guerrilla, can continue to fight if it is deprived of sanctuary and logistical support. Accordingly, the central goal of the U.S. strategy during this period was to destroy the ratlines following the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers. On the other hand, the key to defeating an insurgency is to provide security for the population. The first element of the strategy succeeded. But because of insufficient forces, the second part failed.
1. Gen Casey was never defeated on the battlefield. His troops always overwhelmingly won any military engagement.
2. The "clear and hold" strategy is not "new" in Baghdad. It is exactly what's been happening since about 2004. It is true that if you can deny your enemy mobility and supply, then he will be defeated. Going house-to-house, block-by-block worked in Samarra and Falujah.
3. The weakness of those early "clear and hold" operations was the lack of trained Iraqi forces to operationally control those cities after the American forces departed.
4. The training of a viable Iraqi brigade or division is more than sending a bunch of troops to basic training and advanced training. If that were the case, we wouldn't need all of this command structure in our military divisions. We'd just train a bunch of guys every other year and tell them they were a division. The truth is that from Generals, Command Sergeant Majors, Senior Colonels, LTC, Maj's, Cpt's, 1SGs, etc.... we have hundreds of years of experience and an entire system, history, and tradition in place. Creating a division is far, far more than throwing a bunch of guys with M16s in the field and calling them a division.
5. The loss of experience in the Iraqi Army was the result of the early occupation of Iraq and it rests on the shoulders of those early leaders like Bremer, Rumsfeld, etc.
6. It was rational for Casey to quit the "clear and hold" strategy until the new government CREATED competent Iraqi troops to take over the areas that were cleared. It would have been ignorant to do "clear" and have no "hold." He had to await trained Iraqi troops, so he had to turn his attention to that detail. Since there are now quantities of trained Iraqi troops, and since Casey trained them, his insistence on building the BASE for the "clear hold" strategy is THE SPECIFIC REASON we can now carry out the strategy in Baghdad.
7. It was not possible to use US forces to do the "hold" part of the "clear hold" for any amount of time. Shinseki's desire for 250,000 troops would not have made it possible. The Iraqi army totals nearly 400,000 now, and it will stretch that Army to provide the quantities of troops needed to "hold" every block in every city in the Sunni Triangle. It would have required the US to have 5 divisions in Iraq continually to do the same thing. With only a 10 division Army that has world commitments elsewhere, that was an IMPOSSIBILITY unless the Congress grew the cajones to declare full mobilization and all-out war.
8. The ultimate villain here is the political establishment that wanted to fight this war on the cheap and not affect the American public. Full mobilization and activation for the duration would have required a consensus agreement on the objectives of the war and a detailed, no-holds-barred plan for winning it.
The last war we actually won was WWII. It featured full mobilization for the duration and intimate involvement of the entire nation, civilian as well as military.
God save us from wars fought on the cheap.
Great comments from both of you. The dead weight of senior officers HAS to be culled from the force structure.
There are plenty of Captains and Majors out there that can perform the jobs held by LTC's, COL's, and yes, GEN's. While I was still a relatively young CPT, I served in an Operations Officer position that was billeted for an LTC, and did it for almost two years.
These younger officers have the drive, motivation, and energy it will take to transition our current forces from the conventional mindset to the counterinsurgency/guerrilla mode of warfare.
Let's face it: these senior officers were Lts, CPTs and MAJs during Desert Storm (1991). Much has changed over the past 16 years, especially tactics.
Lets' face it, part deux: our federal government has become far too bloated to adjust their modus operandi to adequately respond to the GWOT. Fortunately, the conflict in Iraq has bought us time by centralizing the attention and focus of radical Islam.
Our departments of State, Defense, Treasury, etc. also need a thorough housecleaning (i.e. retirements/buyouts) to get rid of the dead weight at the top of those agencies. Instead, our politicians continue to waste their breath on nonbinding resolutions, pork, and politics.
Show me a candidate that can provide such a vision for the US, and I'll support his/her candidacy. Truthfully, I don't know if that person is Newt, Duncan, or another candidate. Of course, I would have been just as happy for the election campaign to wait a few months.
First, I owe you and others who's had to struggle through trying to make sense of my posts here an apology.
I was up way past my bed time and deep into brain fade as well as suffering a temporary despair from too much blog reading and exposure to various renditions of defeatism and weirdness.
The conscript forces I had the opportunity to train and work with were ROK forces in Asia and Norwegian and German forces in Europe.
The making lite of what is a serious issue is well and true and thank you for calling me on it. I do tend to fall off into snark when enraged or frustrated. My failure that. But I do contend that the problems we face long predate this and even Clinton's admin and are resulting from a series of compromises, both military and civil, that have aggregated into the situation we now face.
This admin did not create the hyper inflated and grossly overpowered JAG office, for example. Nor did this administration create the overtly hostile and often blatantly anti-ist media coverage of our military. These are issues that our military has had to adapt to over the preceding decades and may never really be able to recover from completely.
The emperor snark bit was in reference to how many folk in their frustration tend to give the office of the President powers that dont really exist, either in fact, or in executable form.
If, for example, the measures you advocate were put into effect, even if legal and lawful and fully vetted by our SCOTUS and ok'd by Congress, there's good chance we'd already be neck deep in open domestic civil unrest and possibly even so far as a form of civil or "revolutionary" war.
We've given far far too much ground to the marxist propagandists and postmodernist moral relevancy revisionists to take traditional measures of wartime production ramp-ups.
Yes we have problems and yes those problems desperately need addressing but we have to start with an accurate definition of the problem before any real attempts can be made.
I do see hope in this new crop of company and newly minted field grade officers though. There's some true heart soldiers being placed in commands at lower levels that may well be the turning point necessary in the decades to come. We've also proven that the old bull crap euro trash canard about Americans being weak is provably false. We've got ample evidence of our young men and women conducting themselves at levels equal to any of our heroic examples of our past.
As an example of what I mean when I say it is our fault, try this exercise.
The next time you see, read or hear of an American citizen, private or public, conducting him/her self in a manner that directly aids and abets the enemy and/or serves specifically to promote defeatism, say the word "traitor" out loud. Then consider the traditional remedy for traitors and then ask yourself why you are not following through.
No culture, society, civilization or population has survived a time of conflict while allowing its own citizens to indulge in betrayal.
1. "I had occasion for a short period of time during a lengthy exercise in the late 90's to regularly brief Gen Casey. So far as the man is concerned, I'd say that he was direct, organized, absolutely determined to win, and for this chaplain, the general was genuinely concerned with the spiritual state of his command."
Generalissimo Santa Anna was also absolutely determined to win That means nothing
Knowing yourself, your men and knowing the enemy means something and Gen Casey knew none of these things. General Casey is not the issue however he is but a symptom so I don't wish to adress him only.
2. "In addition to my daily report he went out of his way to ask for a spiritual moment at each of the briefings. That's to his credit. In short, I respected him, AND I liked him."
I am always pleased to see respect for our creator.. That is a good thing.
That does not substitute for Victory
Victory is the only measure of Generalship that counts. American Families trust their love ones to the Generals hand. American families must not be asked to sacrifice their loved ones to incompetents.
Victory is the only proof of competence and justification for their sacrifice.
3. "The operational concept was "clear and hold." On the one hand, no force, conventional or guerrilla, can continue to fight if it is deprived of sanctuary and logistical support."
When we drive thru an area are attacked and then withdraw to our FOBs. Just what are we holding?.
That night the enemy walks on the ground laughing about the attack their commander doing an after action review going over the days events and planning the next attack.
I would say we lost that fight.
4. "Accordingly, the central goal of the U.S. strategy during this period was to destroy the ratlines following the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers.
On the other hand, the key to defeating an insurgency is to provide security for the population.
The first element of the strategy succeeded."
What!
If the enemy still has freedom of movement is conducting attacks. Laying mines and setting off car bombs daily.
The strategy has not succeeded.
5. "But because of insufficient forces, the second part failed."
Nonsense
Some Iraqis are rebelling against us sitting downtown in the former dictators palaces. We failed to hire the people quickly and give them jobs so they got pissed. We failed to put the Iraqi Generals in Charge and tell them to calm things down and reestablish order. Patton got in trouble for Using Nazis but he found the people who could get the job done and then let justice in its time take its course. Come on we know how to do this..
Some that we are fighting are doing the bidding of Iran.
By moving into Saddams Palaces we sent the stupidest message encouraging rebellion.
Meet the new Boss, same as the Old Boss.
6. "Gen Casey was never defeated on the battlefield."
Spare US As I said General Casey is not the Issue.
Every time a Patrol comes under attack, Every time a Stryker or Humvee Crapmobile gets blown up and we are unable to respond to the attacker find them and kill them.
Everytime they escape we have lost that engagement.
This Presence Patrol baloney is idiotic
Presence Patrols are essentially Delivery Service our Soldiers and Marines being delivered in weak vulnerable wheeled vehicles along predictable routes (Because they cannot travel cross country) for the enemy to kill, injure or maim.
Stupid is as stupid does. Presence Patrols are a Generals Creation not some Lt, Capt or Sgts I guarantee it.
Anyone who has ever hunted game knows the hunter is the guy in the stand who waits by a trail he hopes or by reading the sign (intelligence) he feels the game will travel down and then attacks and kills the game at his choosing a hunter shoots his game the enemy uses command detonated mines. No other difference.
With Presence Patrol our Generals allow our young men and women to be the hunted
That it does not have to be like this makes it even more pathetic.
Presence Patrol... Here we are for the killing
Combat Patrol
. Here we are (maybe and maybe we are a ruse) but we are hunting you. Attack us and we will not drive away..Either way we are hunting you. We have a well planned and prepared response for your best moves Our route is being over watched by aerial surveillance. We have our agents in buildings and snipers hiding waiting for you to break cover. Tanks and Bradleys have been observing the area for the last week with thermal sights. We watched you place the mines and we are not going there we are coming to you enemy to make you dead.
Now we are the hunters they are the hunted.
7. His troops always overwhelmingly won any military engagement.
Repeating the same thing twice does not make it true..
If a Humvee is blown up that is an engagement if a convoy is attacked that is an engagement..
Unless we have prevented the attacks or damage from them then killed the enemy that is an engagement we lost.
Stop making things up
8. "The "clear and hold" strategy is not "new" in Baghdad. It is exactly what's been
Happening since about 2004.
It is true that if you can deny your enemy mobility and supply, then he will be defeated. Going house-to-house, block-by-block worked in Samarra and Falujah."
So the bad guys know the heat is on and get the heck out until things get back to normal when they will filter back in and resume the festivities..
Thats a Victory?
Thats delusional (sorry Chaplain)
9. "The weakness of those early "clear and hold" operations was the lack of trained Iraqi forces to operationally control those cities after the American forces departed."
No!
We are in Shia Ville and Sunni Land and act we are in Germany or Japan where the populations were homogenous knew they had lost, were hungry, tired and ready for peace.
Once we failed to move quickly to reestablish order. Hire every Iraqi who would work digging ditches, doing public works we wrecked our chances of a quick resolution..
Now we must build and have the Iraqis man a DMZ between Shias and Sunnis.
We have to separate the combatants or this will never stop..
We have to move our forces out of the Cities to the Border with Iran and Syria and establish Strongholds away from the Cities and in the South as a buffer and threat to Iranian Influence.
10. "The training of a viable Iraqi brigade or division is more than sending a bunch of troops to basic training and advanced training. If that were the case, we wouldn't need all of this command structure in our military divisions. We'd just train a bunch of guys every other year and tell them they were a division. The truth is that from Generals, Command Sergeant Majors, Senior Colonels, LTC, Maj's, Cpt's, 1SGs, etc.... we have hundreds of years of experience and an entire system, history, and tradition in place. Creating a division is far, far more than throwing a bunch of guys with M16s in the field and calling them a division."
Oh come on
Please!!
What are now the Iraqis have had Armies and Generals since the times of Babylon for thousands of years before we ever existed. There army successfully fought a much larger opponent in Iran for what 10 years?
11. "The loss of experience in the Iraqi Army was the result of the early occupation of Iraq and it rests on the shoulders of those early leaders like Bremer, Rumsfeld, etc."
Generals.. real Generals do not just follow Orders They Resign! when something is wrong they will always get a paycheck and if things are wrong they have options.. Sgt Snuffy and Lt Bill do not nor can they resign nor would they as they know their lives are what are required for liberty to be preserved. All they ask is that we do not not squander their lives or take their lives lost lightly. That is why they must count on the Generals and why it is so morally reprehensible to fall back on just following orders knowing something is wrong.
These Generals are just as responsible for squandering American Lives, Will and resocurces as any Politician Republi-Con or Demon-Crat.
12. "It was rational for Casey to quit the "clear and hold" strategy until the new government CREATED competent Iraqi troops to take over the areas that were cleared. It would have been ignorant to do "clear" and have no "hold." He had to await trained Iraqi troops, so he had to turn his attention to that detail. Since there are now quantities of trained Iraqi troops, and since Casey trained them, his insistence on building the BASE for the "clear hold" strategy is THE SPECIFIC REASON we can now carry out the strategy in Baghdad."
Since we did not Clear and Hold anything it actually is correct to try something else
Saying he quit because it did not work would be honest if he really quit to try something else..
But Generals Casey is a Sympton and not the real problem.
The real problem is systemic.
13. "It was not possible to use US forces to do the "hold" part of the "clear hold" for any amount of time. Shinseki's desire for 250,000 troops would not have made it possible. The Iraqi army totals nearly 400,000 now, and it will stretch that Army to provide the quantities of troops needed to "hold" every block in every city in the Sunni Triangle. It would have required the US to have 5 divisions in Iraq continually to do the same thing. With only a 10 division Army that has world commitments elsewhere, that was an IMPOSSIBILITY unless the Congress grew the cajones to declare full mobilization and all-out war."
In this you are correct and I agree our President failed to seek and get a declaration of war..
This made it possible for the kind of carping , whining and backstabbing that is going on here to take place.
The Psychological Impact of actions in war matters (Perception). General Shinsekis 250,000 men was actually a complete and well equipped Army which would have initially would have calmed things down achieved victory with less damage and probably less killing. They could have smothered places like Falluja.
Had that been coupled with keeping the Iraqi Army intact and a jobs program. We still might need to build a DMZ between the warring parties but we would have an Iraqi Army to man it to build it.
No matter how many men we sent in if we fired the Iraqi Army and people did not have jobs we would have had a rebellion
14. "The ultimate villain here is the political establishment that wanted to fight this war on the cheap and not affect the American public."
No it is a bunch of Generals who lacked the courage to say No".. Either fight the war in a way that is proper and will lead to victory or find another boy cause I resign.
General Swartkopft said I need, I want, and he got. everyone listened didnt they?.. He killed more than 300,000 of the enemy (not the only measure of victory) broke their back and lost around 200 troops.
Now why do you suppose they shitcanned him as soon as the war was over?
15. "Full mobilization and activation for the duration would have required a consensus agreement on the objectives of the war and a detailed, no-holds-barred plan for winning it."
Finally you say something correct.
We needed a declaration of war
Then to act like the lives of our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines Mattered and not squander them riding around in CrapMobiles looking to be killed so Generals can say Brave Soldier,brave Marine we honor their sacrifice
The Generals who have let this thing get so messed up who either dont know or dont care what right is (How to fight) Do not Honor the Troops or their Oath
. they Dishonor us all and make America look weak and vacillating in the face of a determined and dangerous enemy.
Many people know what right looks many have worked for Warrior Generals and saw how they were comfortable with killing the enemy and loving their men beyond them selves.
Dont play silly games with lives the loved ones of others.. Their lives are a trust and their sacrifices great.
Families on food stamps while their husbands fight (I have seen that for 30 years) I knew a young women whose dad was a Marine Sgt Major (mine) as a girl her Mom would put out popcorn so she and her siblings would not be hungry cause there was not enough money to eat well. Today we have young women on food stamps. Others horribly burned, children left without their Mothers as if this were the siege of Stalingrad or we were manning the walls of the Alamo in a do or die last stand..
All for no good reason other than a bunch of GQ Generals lack the courage to say
We are not in a last ditch do or die effort. The final battle to defend our nation where every able bodied man and women must fight.
They even lack the courage to resign when they know something wrong and cannot change it. They go on and do that which even according to you they know is wrong
I want to win
I want to fight
. I want to defeat the Cancer of Islamofacisim on humanity. The left wants to surrender, has surrendered in their hearts and our Generals either are unwilling or do not know how to fight and win.
Dont Blame the Republi-Cons or Demon-Crats for that.
W
Double bump! Good discussion all around.
Steel Wolf, thought you might want to see this.
Double bump!
It seems clear to me that your response is "bad general, bad general" and I simply disagree. I've given my rationale, and I don't think you've responded at all to the specifics of it.
Iraq is a country the size of California, and it has some 25-30 million people. The issue in Iraq is not the number of troops on the ground (unless we're talking full mobilization.) The issue is that the Sunnis were in charge and don't want to give up their power, especially to Shi'ites. That would have been the case no matter our sending in 150000 or 250000. They employed a rope-a-dope strategy regarding the combat phase, figuring they would lose that, and then would engage in a media war of attrition.
I don't believe it says anything about our troops that insurgents in civilian clothing can blow up something anywhere from 7 to 14 times a week in a country the size of California.
The question is "What is YOUR plan other than 'clear and hold?'"
Spell it out. I'm all ears.
Maybe we'll get a version of "bomb Mecca 'til it glows" or "MOAB Baghdad," but you know it won't be done. It simply will not be allowed.
What is YOUR plan? (And it better not even sound like 'clear and hold.')
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