Posted on 02/28/2007 7:54:19 AM PST by Al Simmons
Wedge Issues Posted by: “Common Tator” in FreeRepublic.com April 16, 2002
The one thing that amazes me on this site is the belief by some that the conservative position is the majority position.
Mostly people tend to believe it could be the majority position if the right candidate ran, or if it weren't for the media or RINOs or etc, etc. They really don't have a clue.
Roughly 2/3 of the public has firm views. They have made up their minds and do not change them. This group is nearly equally split between the left and the right.
There are about a 1/3 of the population that is never sure. Sometimes it will go left and sometimes it will go right.
When a party restricts itself to its base it will be in a minority party. The "base only" party will be reduced to crying as the other side works its will. In some nations both the left and right restrict themselves to just their base. That nation then develops five or six parties. And all governments in that nation are coalitions of a major party and some of the minor parties. In that situation the minor party always has more influence than its numbers represent. For the Rino and Dino haters that is the worst of all worlds.
Many of Rino and Dino haters try to make ours a 3 or 4 party system. They never figure out that their splinter right or left party would never get much power in a government based on coalitions. They are too small. It is the centrist parties that have a 1/3 of the public as potential members that get the clout in the Multi Party system. As you can see in a 2 party or a 5 or 6 party system the center tends to prevail.
But in our two party system the center is an instrument the major parties use to enact their goals. In the multiparty system it is the center parties that use the right and left to enact their centrist goals. Such a system like those in Italy and France are RINO and DINO paradise.
This nation now and for all of the last 140 years has been roughly 1/3 left, 1/3 right and 1/3 in the middle. Those in the middle who run for office are what we call RINOs and DINOs.
When Republicans drive RINOs out they leave the party to become DINOs and take their political power with them. The Democrat party gets them by default.
Then the Democrats thanks to its Dino buddies have a veto proof house and senate. It was Barry Goldwater's greatest accomplishment. In my BRAIN I knew Barry would elect a lot of DINOs ... and he did.
If a party with most of the center wins the presidency too, they have a filibuster proof senate. That party then can do anything it wants to do. When the party leadership takes control they implement the parties’ core beliefs. It was what LBJ did after Goldwater drove all the RINOs into LBJ's camp. It let LBJ do the "Great Society." LBJ had to have Barry's help to do it. And Barry did what it took to give LBJ the support he needed... LBJ had all the left. Barry gave him all the center.
To win control a party must keep its base and get over half the middle. If the Republicans have more RINOs than the Democrats have DINOs the Republican agenda prevails. If the Democrats have more DINOs than the Republicans have RINOs the Democrat agenda prevails.
Those that demand the defeat of RINOs are doing all they can to enact the leftist agenda. They are the most valuable asset the left has. One of the most effective tactics in politics in the negative campaign.
Negative campaigns are not about getting votes for your candidate. They are about getting the other side's base to not vote for their candidate. Thus if you can get the right to vote against a Rino or not vote at all, you can elect a very liberal candidate.
If you can force the Republicans to nominate a right wing candidate so right wing he can't get the center voters, you elect the left candidate.
Frankly, I have never thought about the issues he brings up from the angle he discusses.
And, YES, I have heaped verbal brickbats upon "RINOS" in the past with the same vitriol some of you recently heaped upon me and others who are supporting a Giuliani candidacy for reasons that have been discussed on the Rudy threads.
Please - we do not need a repeat of that here.
This thread is not about Rudy, but about the though-provoking analysis that Common Tator penned above, just before the 2002 election.
So let's refrain from name-calling, and discuss his points rationally.
I hope that is still possible around here.
This is my attempt to return the discussion to a more civilized level.
Lets discuss ideas instead of personalities.
Does he make some good points? I have to admit that I believe he does.
Especially the point that the way to gain power is to include RINOS in the party, knowing that once we have a majority the more conservative party leadership will follow a more conservative course.
Common Tator was definitely correct about one thing: The 'Rats learned this lesson long ago - as we just saw in 2006; they elected a bunch of new 'DINOS' like Jim Webb - who will give the true leftists the majority votes to implement the leftists agenda.
Seems to me it wasn't so long ago that RR basically did the same thing for the conservatives - in his first term to be precise.
It seems to be a historical lesson lost on some of the "I'll take my marbles and go home if I don't like a candidate crowd."
I'll repeat what I said earlier - until 2006 I was as equally dismissive of the RINOS as any of you were.
Could it be, however, that we got so complacent with our electoral successes, 1994-2004, that we lost sight of the forest for the trees?
Kindly ping whoever you believe would be interested in this discussion.
And lets try to get this thread as much attention as the flame-throwing threads we've seen lately - and right the tone of discourse here on FR for everyone.
Once again, if you come here to continue the verbal donnybrook of the other threads, you're doing a disservice to FR.
Please lets discuss these point rationally.
Thank you.
You could also ask "IS DRIVING CONSERVATIVES OUT OF THE GOP GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY? THOUGHT-PROVOKING MUST-READ FOR RUDY-LOVERS."
Lets discuss the ideas he submits for consideration instead of personalities.
I don't keep ping lists, but I'd wager most of the folks on the earlier threads would find this one of interest (or irritation ;>)
So feel free to ping whoever you think might want to chime in.
Thanks as always.
Amen Amen Amen
Great post. It is thought provoking and makes sense. Common Tator's last post was about a month ago. Hopefully he'll be around. I enjoy reading his posts.
Why is it that everyone wanting to appease or retreat calls their opinion the rational or sane answer?
ping
Yeah, I hate when people name-call like using 'Rudy-Haters' or something. I hope this thread does not deteriorate into that....
Great Post, Al, I'm sending it to my "RINO hater" local Republican committee today!
Regards, Ivan
Well, its off to work know. Wonder how many posts I'll have to reply to tonight?? #:-0
Common Tator was a precursor to the Rooty Tooty Fresh 'n Fruity crowd.
I'm not surprised you'd find common cause with him.
Are you sure you're not him?
Ummm....two points:
a. That title is called a "Hook" to get you 'in' to take a look, and
b. There are some posters on the other threads to whom that moniker fits like a glove.
But lets stick to the ideas of this piece, at least on this thread, please.
ping
This part is untrue. People self-identify as conservatives at a rate nearly double that of liberals.
To win control a party must keep its base and get over half the middle.
Well, duh.
The question is: can you keep the base with a candidate the base finds abhorrent?
It's all a question of balance, so you have to find a consensus candidate who can appeal to the various wings of the party. It would seem to me, and many others, self-evident that Giuliani cannot be that person, but many still believe he can.
Except that moonbats are far more at ease with lying to promote their agenda, so in that way it is far easier for a Democrat to pretend to be a moderate.
?????????????????????
Hey... this guy's trying to “right the tone of discourse here on FR for everyone.”
The fact that I do not want Rudy to be President of the United States does not make me a Rudy-Hater, or a hater of any kind. It does make me a principled conservative, not willing to compromise that which I will have to answer for in the next life.
Good luck with this post Al! I hope you get some straight answers but from the look of thinks they will stick to their regular ranting about Rudy.
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