KERIK KO'D A TWO-YEAR PRISON DEAL (Giuliani's buddy allegedly gave false info to WH)

NY POST ^ | March 14, 2007 | LARRY CELONA

[Jhensy]

Further correction!!: an arrogant, gay, left-wing, know-it-all, one trick pony loser according to you.

A good day's work there!

[sgtbono2002]

I would bet the farm she voted for Barry in his last election.

[Dante3]

Yep. And it would come as no big surprise if he sent her a generous gift.

[mkjessup]

Jhensy, I want to thank you for your thoughtful freepmail you sent to me earlier today, and I just want to say to everyone in this thread that Jhensy expressed to me what I think a lot (maybe not all, but some I'm sure) of us are experiencing, which is that we don't particularly like the hostility that seems to be a regular occurrence on FR, and it mostly revolves around the whole issue of Rudy Giuliani's candidacy.

It's never personal. I have no personal animus against any individual here on FR, but I have lots of animus against some of the un-conservative views and positions that I see being promoted and defended in the name of expediency, in the name of 'we must beat Hillary at any cost', to which I say "at what cost, the cost of our conservative souls?"

I used to be favorably inclined to a Rudy candidacy for President, in fact I posted his entire speech that he gave at the GOP '04 convention as a demonstration of how he "gets it" about our struggle with Islamofascism in this continuing War on Terror that we face. I'm sure that if elected, Rudy would do everything possible to prosecute that War as efficiently as he prosecuted criminals as a U.S. Attorney.

But that's not enough. It takes more than being a strong leader, it takes more than delivering a great speech and bringing the crowds to their feet, it takes someone who has a consistent and abiding record of moral strength, of defending the Constitution of the United States "against all enemies, foreign and domestic", and while I will be the first to admit and concede that ALL of us, each and every one, from candidate to the FR janitor who empties the bit bucket each night, have all 'sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God', I must say that I view Rudy's moral behavior as inconsistent with conservative Republican values, values that America embraced with Ronald Reagan in 1980 and '84. The GOP ran on those values, and won on those values, because those are AMERICAN values.

The Rudy supporters remind me of the enthusiastic late investors in any given Ponzi scheme, there is no guile, no deliberate maliciousness in the goals they pursue in behalf of their candidate, but their zeal has blinded them to the human failings of the individual they would elect to the highest office in the land, and at this critical time of our history, we cannot afford to throw the dice on someone with uncertain views, who claimed on one hand in the past that their liberal social positions were firm, but now presents themselves as being a true conservative in the Reagan mold. And those supporters would tragically be left with nothing to their name, their hard earned money gone to pay off the early investors, and ending up with nothing but disillusionment, disappointment and despair.

Sorry for the long rant here, but I wanted to make it clear that no matter how heated my rhetoric may be, it is never personal. I consider all of you (well, most of you, lol) to be my FRiends, and I hope you don't think too unkindly of me.

Please disregard any unkind words that I said to Jhensy in this thread. He is a gentleman, he means well, and he believes passionately in his candidate.

[Jhensy]

And the same for mkjessup. I'm at work now and can't comment at length, but I felt really bad about losing my cool a bit earlier, and I'm sorry for that. mk and met on common ground, and he's an upstanding guy.

I will post a little more when I'm home later.

[Dante3]

You make many good points. I would respectfully disagree with you regarding Rudy's commitment to WOT. He cannot pursue that while at the same time support open borders and recommending someone such as Kerik.

Also, I find his rejection of traditional marriage and the type of judges he has appointed as serious problems. The Russian experiment, notably during the late 1930s and early 1940s, revealed the importance of marriage and family for an industrial society. The consequences were so negative, that the Soviet Russians had no other choice but to reverse their attacks on marriage in spite that it went counter to their ideology. What Rudy promotes will lead to chaos in the Us. The next step will be polygamy, then group marriage, etc.

[Ramius]

That post is well done, and should be well considered.

We're going to disagree about the impact of a potential Giuliani Presidency. But we *do* need to be more civil and better reasoned in the process. I'm certainly as guilty as anyone of getting emotional. Even [ahem] lately.

It's probably too much to hope for, but perhaps occasionally we'll have little islands of sanity like this in the oceans of flame wars. Well said.

[mkjessup]

I appreciate that Ramius, and thanks for the Freepmail: you're right - sometimes we need (I know I do!) to take a deep breath. Well here it is, 5:00 am and a brand new day.

I need coffee. LOL