Liberal Myths about Radical Islam [Interesting Read]

Townhall.com ^ | March 26, 2007 | Dinesh D'Souza

[Steel Wolf]

By contrast, the Crusades have never been important to the Muslim world.... Even if liberals detest the Crusades, however, there is no good reason for many of today's Muslims to care about them, and there is no evidence that they think about the subject at all.

Apparently Dinesh doesn't know any Muslims. At all. Because this is hands down the dumbest, most inaccurate statement I've read all month.

[lonestar67]

Feel free to offer some evidence for your claim.

Your ellipses are well placed.

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Having dealt with quite a few Muslims in various fora, I assure you they DO think about the Crusades. Quite a lot, actually.

[PGalt]

My conclusion is that the main reasons leading liberals give to explain the antagonism of the Islamic radicals toward the United States and the West are false.

Collectivists of a feather. Dihad. Taqiyya.

[Steel Wolf]

Feel free to offer some evidence for your claim.

For one, my team and I were often referred to as crusaders by Iraqis that didn't realize the 6'4 blond guy next to me spoke perfect Arabic. I've also had some research time on the counterterrorism issue, and you'd be suprised how often the concept of the Crusades comes up. It's at least as common as we mention the Islamic concept of jihad, and probably more so. Bin Laden uses the term in practically every speech he's ever given, and it's widely used in mosques and madrassas as a way of referring to westerners.

That's just off the top of my head, though. I don't have any links handy.

[massgopguy]

That's because they were driven from Europe. They hate losing.

[Colorado Mike]

No, they say they do, because they too know what buttons to push and when to push them. Playing to the lib press is a proven venue for success.

[Jacquerie]

If muzzies have a problem with the Crusades, that is their problem. Tough. Heck, I'm glad it annoys them. The fact is that islam has been at war with the West since the 7th century. The war continues and should we lose the world will enter a new dark age. I despise their culture and religion and look forward to their ultimate defeat.

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

No, they say they do, because they too know what buttons to push and when to push them. Playing to the lib press is a proven venue for success.

Not necessarily. Many of them actually do still rely on the Crusades as a "reason" why it is legitimate to fight jihad and support it now. Granted, their reasoning IS stupid, backward-looking, and self-centred. But for many of them, it is more than just mock offence for media consumption.

[Alberta's Child]

I suspect a lot of this can be explained by the natural tendency of dysfunctional cultures to reflexively blame others -- on any pretext whatsoever, no matter how silly it may be -- for the failures of that dysfunctional culture. This is what drove many Muslims in Indonesia to blame that catastrophic tsunami in the South Pacific a few years ago -- while apparently keeping a straight face, mind you -- on U.S. and Israeli nuclear tests they claimed were being conducted on the ocean floor.

In that sense, "avenge the Crusades" for Muslims in the Middle East is probably no different than "George Bush destroyed the levees in New Orleans" among Americans like Louis Farrakhan.

[newcthem]

IMHO This is a learned response, just like the Somali moslims in Minneapolis who are depressed because Israel occupies "their" "holy" places.
You can get angry about anything in the world if you set your mind to it.

[lonestar67]

I think those are sufficient examples to prove your point. I definitely recall Bin Laden using such references.

Nonetheless, I do think that it is a more contemporary training in how to break down the Western system. How can we guilt the West into giving itself up? They know we feel guilty for the crusades.

I tend to agree with other posters that the Crusades were a response to imperial aggression of the Islamic world. Seizure of Jerusalem was an emphatic point of domination. Further seizures in Europe also demonstrated their aggressive practice.

Our responses continue to be rather tame.

[Quick or Dead]

This article further reinforces the point that Islam is mental disease. In the Islamicversion of psychosis, it is perfectly acceptable to conquer any land ruled by the infidels without repercussion or reprisal. However, if the infidel should take the land back, or a bigger, badder infidel come along, then the poor Muslims must stew on, carry grudge, even if it occurred several hundred years ago. Most Muslims see no problem with the Islamic "Crusade" on the Persian, Byzantine and Hindu empires and their subsequent colonization of each. However, when the European infidel arrived to colonize them, well, gosh darnit, they have "grievances", they have been "humiliated", and the only remedy for it is jihad.

[norton]

So which is the chicken and which is the egg?

I'd consider it likely that the Crusades references were added on after the fact as a means to marshal the troops.

(Ending slavery came after maintaining the union. Saving European Jewry came after stopping Germany expansionism. I'm pretty confident that stopping Serbian ethnic cleansing came after some very Machiavellian decisions were made in Berlin.)

PS: The few Muslims I know are hard over on US-Israeli linkage and stone silent on the Crusades.

[upchuck]

This article further reinforces the point that Islam is mental disease.

Perfect! Kinda like liberalism :)

[Steel Wolf]

Nonetheless, I do think that it is a more contemporary training in how to break down the Western system. How can we guilt the West into giving itself up? They know we feel guilty for the crusades.

To an extent, I think this is the case. But, as another poster mentioned, they are a deeply dysfunctional culture. While a more sophisticated troublemaker like Bin Laden may understand the psychological akido involved, the average Muslim doesn't. It's a point of humiliation, a symbol of failure, and an excuse to cling to for their lack of success in the modern world. People latch on to that, especially when confronted with two dueling realities.

Those realities being that Islam is the perfect form of government, religion, and society, alongside the fact that Islam creates poverty, tyranny and intellectual stifling wherever it goes. Simply put, Islam is a disaster in practice, and they don't understand why. The crusades, and by extention, the West, is the scapegoat. *Someone* did this to us. *Someone* is out to get us, which is why things aren't going well.

It's not rational, but it's a powerful emotion arguement, and many contemporary Muslims believe it. Granted, many are obsessed with Zionism, as a specific form of Western meddling, but the concept of Crusaders spoiling the Muslim party are at the base of that neurosis. It's a lot more deep seated, culturally speaking, than the more recent concern of Zionism.

[RightWhale]

Is it reasonable to think that Muslims today are genuinely outraged about events that occurred a thousand years ago?

Political islam is quite modern. They are going after their heretics with a vengeance and every moslem is considered heretical by some other moslem. It might be interesting to watch except that they also want to involve everybody on the planet in their problems.

[Excellence]

Do any liberals even believe there is such a thing as Islamist fascism or extremism? I'm trying to think of names of liberals who have argued against the idea of this. I can only think of Edward Said and Ward Churchill. Can someone think of other names? I'm in the midst of a letter to the editor argument who is fantasizing that if AlGore were president, 9/11 would never have happened, and the problem of anthropogenic global warming would be all solved by now. I know most of the Democrat party is in denial, but I can't think of names. Some of that is I'm just so frustrated with liberal fantasy getting column inches I could scream!

[PerConPat]

The West is not perfect, as evidenced by our World Wars etc.. However, the basic, historical thrust in the West has been to increase personal freedom and to encourage individual creativity. Islamic cultures that have striven to maintain a status quo mired in the Middle Ages fell behind and to chose to blame others for the troubles brought about by a failure to embrace modernity.

Islamofascism will fall into the trash bin of history. However, the amount of devastation that will be necessary to eradicate this disease is dependent upon Muslim leadership. We will be fighting, largely as a result of the Left's machinations, radical Muslims long after the Bush (43) administration is gone.