Posted on 03/30/2007 6:20:58 PM PDT by buccaneer81
I was raised a Catholic too, but there's not much hope for me.
Wowie zowie.
Pingout tomorrow for sure.
Are you an atheist, then, because your idea of God does not seem to hold true in this life? Jessica Lunsford was a prime example of a bad thing happening to an otherwise good person. Perhaps you missed the part where without free will, we'd all be zombies. This isn't a computer simulation - people do horrible things to each other. Why that means there is no Creator is something only you can answer. It's pretty clear you've got a very solid idea of God in your head and because God doesn't live up to your standards, He doesn't exist.
Thanks for being one of the classic atheist exhibits.
Good - you're back.
I never went anywhere...
LOL - poor guy has already condemned himself to hell...
The Sheep MUST BE separated from the Goats..
Have you ever seen a non bitter atheist?
"I've always laughed at how militant many atheists are.. if there is no God, what's the point?"
They want to destroy God for the rest of us believers. In doing so, they will, not only "kill" God, but also the Western Culture that Christianity gave rise to.
The ultimate goal of atheist and humanist is the corruption and moral decay of Western European Culture and its people.
Just sent you a freepmail.
Reality is not an axiom-based system of formal logic, so I don't see how your statement can be mapped to any particular meaning, nor how it might be sequitur to the discussion.
We are defined by nature. Civilization only gives the weakest man the ability to kill the strongest.
The ability of the stronger man to kill the weaker (or less often, the weaker man to kill the stronger) is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for the existence of a civilization. And a civilization is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for men to kill other men, regardless of their relative strength.
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Jesus says in all those verses I cited that prayers are answered. Jessica, as true blue of a believer as you'll find, didn't pray for material gain-- only for her kidnapper to stop kidnapping her, stop raping her, and stop burying her alive in a sack. Her prayers weren't answered. The prayers of 100% of amputees have been ignored, too. What believers attribute to answered prayer is merely a random event-- regardless of how improbable it might seem.
And dismissing this failure to answer Jessica's prayer and every single amputee and all the many other people who would meet any reasonable requirement for having their prayers answered as part of God's plan while believers report on getting their prayers answered for getting their prayer answered to find their car keys.
The God that I don't believe in is the one covered in the Bible. I am not going to waste time knocking down other religions' gods.
We have anarchy, not free will. Free will is interpreted to be something given to us by someone. We have chaos. We have randomness. Anarchy, chaos, and randomness don't speak to our world being controlled in any way by the Bible God. Every example of man's "free will" is evidence that we are alone in the world. Whether you are a good person or do good things, it doesn't at all follow in a causal way that you will be rewarded. Good things happen to good and bad people, and so do bad things.
Is it possible that some supreme being created the universe and then left his creation alone, no interaction, for evermore? Yeah, sure. But that doesn't change my view that there is no God by any degree of certainty worth concerning myself with-- and besides, the value of worshiping said God is the reward in the afterlife and since the Bible says God does interact with us, I can't take seriously that God has an afterlife for us or that we have any actual idea what is required to get there.
I am perfectly happy about knowing that death is it. It's not depressing to me at all. I enjoy life and living just fine.
Well said--although I'd prefer to live foreever, or at least a very, very, very long time. But I don't believe things just because I would like them to be true. You can't make deals with existence, such as "If I believe X, then I'll get to live forever."
And for the audience: Morality can only come from each individual, since each individual must decide for himself what is right and wrong. Even if you think your morality comes from a transcendent source, it is you who must decide that your moral code comes from a higher authority, and it is you who must decide to live by that code (whether for that reason, or for some other.) There is no getting around that fact.
How do you define "evidence"?
It sure is... we are born, we reproduce, we die...
"What's he that was not of born of woman?" (Macbeth)
It sure is... we are born, we reproduce, we die...
"What's he that was not of born of woman?" (Macbeth)
Morality and all of its associated ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior.
Good & bad, right & wrong, etc., etc., ad nausea; are all inherently religious ideals.
Just had to get in a little defense for us who are doomed to live only one life and then become wormfood. :)
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