CA: Proposal: Get health insurance or pay fine (putting teeth in requiring coverage for all?)

LA Times ^ | 4/11/07 | Jordan Rau

[Aikonaa]

Funny you should mention 1200 bucks a month because that is what I would have to pay if I had insurance due to my “pre-existing” health problems. They have to sell to me but they don’t have to sell to me at a price I can afford. So, I can expect the “health police” to come for me if I can’t buy insurance.

Do you expect to be admitted to a hospital emergency department in case of a medical emergency costing more than you could ever afford to pay out of the pocket? If you do, you are essentially a freeloader in the system.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

What do these people do if they rack up huge medical bills, go bankrupt?

[Aikonaa]

You think you are right, because your attitude is that if someone gets fat and then gets diabetes, they deserve it. If someone smokes and gets lung cancer, they deserve it.

Damn right they do. And I don't care if my attitude 'makes conservatism unpopular'. As far as I'm concerned, we have grown so soft that any reference to the facts of life is becoming 'unpopular'.

[SierraWasp]

Just like you failed by piling on all that barrage of verbage, trying so desperately to make your erroneous point above, you will fail just as miserably by trying to terminate this through getting the last childish word. Dry up now and quit cryin the blues! It’s over!! You lose!!!

[calex59]

Do you expect to be admitted to a hospital emergency department in case of a medical emergency costing more than you could ever afford to pay out of the pocket? If you do, you are essentially a freeloader in the system.

Your statement doesn't make sense. I said I couldn't afford the insurance and you are saying because I can't afford it I am a freeloader even though I pay my own medical bills. What kind of twisted logic are you using? What do you expect me to do if I can't buy insurance, I do the next best thing, I pay my way as I go. If an emergency crops up I will take my chances because that is all I can do. Do you think the governor requiring me to buy insurance I can't pay for is going to help? Is a miracle going to happen that will suddenly give me the extra 1200 bucks a month I need to pay for insurance?

If they plan on subsidizing people who can't afford it, tell me how that is not "freeloading". What a f***king idiot you are. You know nothing about me but yet call me a freeloader. I guess you are for forcing people to buy insurance but haven't got a plan on how they are to pay for it.

Thousands of CA residents don't have insurance now and the reason is they can't afford it but they pay their own way because they don't have huge emergency bills, just as I pay as I go. They won't be able to pay for insurance after this idiot bill is passed either. I guess the solution would be if we were all hustled out and shot, would that make you happy? Once more I have to tell you that you are a total jerk.

[Wolfstar]

Ain’t gonna happen. You can keep this going as long as you want. You can use whatever insults you want. Like water off a duck’s back to me. You only diminish yourself in the process.

[Wolfstar]

Damn right they do.

Charming.

I don't know you, of course, so I don't know what you may have faced in your life. Maybe you haven't yet faced chronic or catastrophic illness, either your own or with a loved one. But if you live long enough, you will eventually. We all will. That's also a fact of life, and a hard one.

When your time comes, as it surely will (unless you go out due to one of the many ways to die that aren't caused by illness), I hope no one says you deserved it. I hope when your day comes, that the people around you show you more compassion than you are capable of showing others.

[SierraWasp]

Yes, of course you're finally right about at least one little measly/weasly thing... Momma told me never to wrestle with the pigs, cause I'd just get all dirty and the piggies just like it way too much!!!

See ya! Wouldn't wanna be ya!!!

[Wolfstar]

Momma told me never to wrestle with the pigs; Wouldn't wanna be ya!!!

Charming. Must suck to go through life with such a bitter outlook. The way one behaves toward strangers is a true window into one's real character and personality. You've revealed yours quite starkly.

[utahagen]

They don’t even have to go bankrupt, because most hospitals and the bill collectors they deal with will not sue the debtors.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

That is amazing. Do you mean that if a person with a good job, say paying 70K per year, but has no health insurance racks up hospital and doctor bills that the hospital/doctors won’t sue?! I know they go after me for the part my insurance doesn’t pay. I understand if the person has nothing suing them is a dead end, but if they have a good income?

[utahagen]

Hospitals, doctors, et al are highly unlikely to sue individuals who owe them money. Suing people itself costs money and it’s a crapshoot for hospitals to go to court against individuals. Here’s one thing that puts hospitals at a disadvantage: it is illegal for a hospital to turn people away from their emergency rooms. So, if an uninsured person is brought in unconscious and cared for, that person could later argue, “I wouldn't’t have asked for medical care I can’t pay for, but I was unconscious and the hospital treated me.” Anyone who owes a hospital money and is being badgered by calls and is worried about his credit, should go to a lawyer who specializes in debt negotiation. Hospitals are often happy to take a very small percentage of a debt as full payment because so many people don’t pay their bills at all. Some hospitals will stop badgering you completely if you call with a tale of woe. I know someone personally who had a baby out of wedlock at Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles. When she got the bill, she called and said, “I have no husband, no income...” Cedars said, “OK, and dropped the whole thing.” I’d tell anyone who wants to declare bankruptcy on account of medical bills that that is nuts. In answer to your question: even someone with good income and good credit is highly unlikely to be sued over medical bills. And if someone like that is sued, a lawyer could make it all go away for a significant chunk less than the total amount owed.

[utahagen]

Hospitals, doctors, et al are highly unlikely to sue individuals who owe them money. Suing people itself costs money and it’s a crapshoot for hospitals to go to court against individuals. Here’s one thing that puts hospitals at a disadvantage: it is illegal for a hospital to turn people away from their emergency rooms. So, if an uninsured person is brought in unconscious and cared for, that person could later argue, “I wouldn't’t have asked for medical care I can’t pay for, but I was unconscious and the hospital treated me.” Anyone who owes a hospital money and is being badgered by calls and is worried about his credit, should go to a lawyer who specializes in debt negotiation. Hospitals are often happy to take a very small percentage of a debt as full payment because so many people don’t pay their bills at all. Some hospitals will stop badgering you completely if you call with a tale of woe. I know someone personally who had a baby out of wedlock at Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles. When she got the bill, she called and said, “I have no husband, no income...” Cedars said, “OK, and dropped the whole thing.” I’d tell anyone who wants to declare bankruptcy on account of medical bills that that is nuts. In answer to your question: even someone with good income and good credit is highly unlikely to be sued over medical bills. And if someone like that is sued, a lawyer could make it all go away for a significant chunk less than the total amount owed.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

I work for the Federal Government now, but in the 70s, I practiced law in Georgia, and did some debt collection work. It is amazing how you can find assets. Most poor people have cars that are worth something, and I have levied on them, houses, and garnisheed wages. Also, I was a Judge of the Small Claims Court for two years, and it only cost $22 for any firm or individual to sue, get a judgment. If the individual ever owns anything in the county where the judgment is recorded, it attaches to the property. Sure, there are “judgment proof” individuals, but it is generally worth it to try to collect. Times must have changed a lot. Also, it may be that garnishment is harder in places like California.

All these deadbeats not paying their bills drives up insurance, and other costs for the people that pay. Something needs to be done here.

[utahagen]

I agree that something needs to be done, which is why I think perhaps the state should mandate that people buy medical insurance. It drives me nuts that people will pay $125 a month for cable TV, but won’t pay that much for their own medical insurance. I’d say that’s their choice and their problem, except that hospitals don’t turn people away and most people don’t pay their medical bills. So, the taxpayer picks up the tab. (The type of people a hospital would bother suing are the responsible types who would never not have medical insurance in the first place.) In Southern California, your chances of getting sued by a hospital are very low and, if you are sued, they will happily cut a deal with you. It’s is, indeed, a big problem.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

You have a point. What enforcement mechanism would be used to force people to buy insurance? It seems to me if the people not buying insurance are so irresponsible, that it would take criminal penalties. When Georgia first made auto insurance mandatory, the fine for not having insurance was $50. That turned out to be no penalty at all. What Georgia does now is to require insurance companies to electronically furnish the state DPS with proof of insurance for the individual prior to that person acquiring state license plates. This is a real pain in the butt for anyone moving to the state, since they generally don’t change their state of residence until after they register their cars.

[utahagen]

I think perhaps states could nudge people into buying medical insurance if they hit uninsured with a tax that would be higher than the insurance would cost. This wouldn’t get everyone self-insured, but it would make some headway with semi-responsible people who don’t currently have medical insurance, but would show up at the emergency room if they were sick or injured.