Posted on 04/16/2007 7:14:16 AM PDT by LexHoskin
Gunman on Campus; Stay inside your building, away from windows; Shooting incident at West Ambler Johnston Hall
(Excerpt) Read more at vtnews.vt.edu ...
Not in the state of New Hampshire. It's 10 bucks for the background check, and the permit to carry soon follows, so long as you don't have a felony conviction.
that Columbine father was also on MSNBC earlier - he was very good. the coverup in the Columbine case is staggering.
I’m really beginning to wonder, because a few things here don’t add up.
OK, so the West AJ shooting (7:15 am) sounds like a “domestic,” for lack of a better word. Boyfriend and girlfriend get in an argument, RA tries to break it up when it gets heated, boyfriend pulls out gun, shoots them both, flees. Now, this is a college dorm we’re talking about. You’re going to tell me that NOBODY out of 895 people in West AJ are going to know who so-and-so’s boyfriend is, and at least a little bit about where he might live? Not even “yeah, she started seeing this weird guy, his name’s Alphonse or Craig or something like that.” C’mon. I lived in a co-ed dorm for three years. There’s fewer secrets in a dorm than in the Clinton White House.
So anyway, that guy gets away. If he’s the same shooter, two hours and change later, he turns up at Norris with two guns and goes on his rampage. And people are now screaming “why wasn’t campus locked down?” I’ve been to Tech (a lot of friends of mine went there, and one still works there). It’s HUGE. It’s bigger than my hometown by a factor of twenty. It’s bigger than the town of Blacksburg itself, or at least more populous. How do you “lock down” what amounts to a small city? Especially when you’ve got twenty-five thousand undergrads and thousands of staff, faculty, and grad students trying to get an education and make a living? You just don’t “lock down” an institution of that size—especially with the relatively limited police resources that the university and the town of Blacksburg have. I’m actually surprised they managed to do it once the Norris Hall shootings happened.
It’s not a high school. You can’t just throw a switch and lock all the doors. There’s thousands of students flowing on and off campus every hour, and in fact the campus adjoins downtown Blacksburg’s main drag for a couple of blocks, with wide open access. I’ll agree that they may have been slow to understand what was going on, but honestly, why wouldn’t they be? To the campus cops and the Blacksburg PD, they had a domestic dispute and murder on their hands at 8:00 am. They had no way of knowing they were about to descend into hell two hours later.
Something, though, still doesn’t add up. Occam’s Razor says that these two shootings HAVE to be the same guy, because the odds against having two gun-toting nutburgers show up on that campus on the same day are one in a zillion. But the lack of ID of the perp makes me wonder.
}:-)4
But as men intent upon hostility have associated themselves in military corps, it becomes your duty to associate likewise-Arm and organize yourselves immediately .... Do you wish to preserve your rights? Arm yourselves-Do you desire to secure your dwellings? Arm yourselves-Do you wish your wives and daughters protected? Arm yourselves-Do you wish to be defended against assassins or the Bully Rocks of faction? Arm yourselves-Do you desire to assemble in security to consult for your own good or the good of your country? Arm yourselves.-To arms, to arms, and you may then sit down contented, each man under his own vine and his own fig-tree and have no one to make him afraid....
If you are desirous to counteract a design pregnant with misery and ruin, then arm yourselves; for in a firm, imposing and dignified attitude, will consist your own security and that of your families-To arms, then to arms. "Mentor," Tench Coxe. AURORA (Phila.), May 21, 1799
But why would the gunman spend the night at her dorm if he knew he was gonna go on a rampage the next day?
The worst school massacre in American history wasn’t a college campus. Bath School in Bath, Michigan was destroyed via explosives in 1929, leaving 38 dead at the scene. Six more deaths, including the suicide of the perpetrator, were related to the incident.
There, fixed it!!!! I am not a "gun nut" - I just care about protecting myself and those around me!
I could be wrong, but I read earlier that the one shown arrested turned out to be a reporter for the school paper.
he was questioned and released.
That’s my point.
If this truly was a lover’s quarrel gone out control, there’s no need for any investigation.
Ma'am! I'll have you know I'm getting married, so keep your hands off my perspicacity! And all the parts around it, too!
If you’re right, I’ll tell everyone I agreed with you before it was cool :-).
To what do you actually refer? I've had a few observations about this situation.... I'd like to know which one impresses you....
how can classes even resume?
That’s what I heard, two dead in the first shooting, 31 in the second including the shooter. Anyone else hear something different?
EEEwwww..I thought the voice was hers but didnt know!
They also felt they had info on the first shooter and no one was arrested.
from another messageboard : BigWinner810 : 4/16/07 3:45 PM
on another message board: This just in from my fraternity listserv: “Zach Petkewicz just got back and he told us his story. he can tell you the details better but he deserves to be recognized immediately. He was in norris hall and heard the gunshots coming from down the hall. while others hid in the class room zach got up and got a few others to help him baracade the door with desks. He could hear the gunman coming down the hall opening doors and firing into class rooms. Zach then saw his door handle turn and the gun man tried to get in but zach jumped up and slammed the door back shut and got on the ground holding the door shut with desks and a few others ran to help him. zach then said he heard the the gunman reloading a new magazine then fired two shots directly through the door but didnt hit anybody. He gave up and continued down the hall.” me: mother of god David: that guy saved a bunch of lives me: yeah Sent at 3:43 PM on Monday
Not exactly what he said. The first question was were there doors chained shut. He said yes. Then he was asked if that was something they normally do, and he said no. Finally someone asked if the chains were there or if the perp brought them, he said he didn't know.
Students were in class in that building when they were shot. I seriously doubt that the school chains doors closed from the inside while classes are being conducted.
I’m a little confused. Who is the second victim in the first shooting? Someone in the same room as the first victim or someone else? Sorry, I’m having a little trouble keeping up!
susie
That is what I heard too cedar 33, I think it was not counting the killer.
Thanks to Frank and your EMT-god bless. 'Instand Jihad' case closed...
The same guy or two shooters in on the same plot.
NFT: Virginia Tech : AJ23 : 4/16/07 3:08 PM
Just thought I’d post up another thread. I KNOW there are other threads, but thought you guys would appreciate the point of view of someone that was there.
I woke up around 10 in my dorm to the loudspeaker on campus saying classes were cancelled and the campus was on lockdown. Apparently the kid did his girlfriend in first execution style in a dorm (West AJ) about two minutes from my dorm. He then injured the RA and got away where two hours later he chained doors at Norris Hall and went off on people there. I’m sure you guys have been hearing the same, but what looks to be the gunman my friends saw standing in shock right outside of burruss hall around 1030. I can’t tell you for sure if that was the gunmen, but all reports look like it was an Asian in a black coat who my friends saw. Police were everywhere this morning.
In response to all you guys complaining about the security and police at Virginia Tech, I can assure you the police force we have in place here is a damn good one. It would be easy for a suspect to go across campus on a Monday morning with no problem and for him to access an academic building in any campus, let alone ours. I’m confident the police did their best work in the situation they were in. As awful as it is, this is the truth. I still feel safe at Virginia Tech, despite the two fluke events that happened this year.
The above was what I told the Philadelphia Daily News this afternoon. Just thought you guys would want to know, and I expect the flaming will begin for an extra post on this because some of you guys never seem to let go even during a tragedy like this.
Keeping guns of campus is a place restriction. The type of weaponry could be construed as a manner restriction.
I understand this is a hotly contested issue with many sides. I also am saddened to see many FReepers condemning Brady law supporters for making political hay of this incident, and then turning around and trying to make political hay themselves.
My views may not be popular on this forum, but I feel obliged to say them and not posture. I don’t think the constitution really works. It has to be stretched and altered in order to reflect reality. I’m not sure if it was ever intended to really function—rather, it exists as a legitiming myth. A rationalist version of the divine right of kings.
A society is built on certain principles, that when taken literally and without moderation, spell the end of that civilization. The underlying principle of the USA is liberty; when liberty is taken to excess and becomes license (as unregulated weaponry would be, in my mind), then the damage done to the State is mortal.
unless it’s a city campus all in one building — is impossible.
What about cell phone text message alert system?
“I read somewhere in this thread that the guy pictured was being detained while they determined his identity; he turned out to be a student reporter and was released. FWIW.”
Yep. A photographer for the student newspaper.
If someone identified the shooter as an ex-boyfriend, presumably some of the victims’ friends would be able to ID the guy. But apparently no one has. So maybe that’s just a theory.
Katie Katie Katie ..........SHUT UP
I’m watching the press conference at the bar. Do these reporters have the slightest clue how stupid, petty, and obnoxious their second guessing looks?
Very sad.
I see the anti-gun and anti-game (led by Jack Thompson) forces are out today in the media. It’s disgusting.
Actually, Occam's Razor would lead me to believe that there were two shooters working in concert.
The police officer speaking at the press conference just now hinted that the incidents may have involved two different shooters.
Experience would point to a planned, multi-party, event, IMO.
Uh, Fire regs?????
“The poison of Monty County spread fast.”
We always used to call it “Monkey County,” a holdover from childhood when we couldn’t get our mouths around a big word like “Montgomery.”
Although I think it could be a jihad, how ‘bout the scenario where the Asian goes to girlfriend’s room to shoot girlfriend and runs into girlfriend’s best friend/roommate. Kills her and then looks for girlfriend across campus?
A shot in the dark but I guessed Crystal Magnum was bi-polar 11 months ago.
That’s what they have said on the press conf...so- a total of 33.
I’m still amazed to listen to the police say..We are not looking for another shooter...and then...says...we are not certain these two incidents are connected. So? What does that actually mean? They’re going to wait for ballistics to come back?
In the meantime...I’m hearing Katie Couric asking the MOST blaming questions already...”people are saying”...
What a b#$%h.
Hmm. That second paragraph, if true, makes me wonder if the shooting didn’t take place in the “other guy’s” room...might explain why nobody else in that dorm would be able to know who the shooter is. Everything up until now (me included) kind of assumed that the girl was the one that lived in West AJ.
}:-)4
Those who have arms can protect the rights of others to speak; they can also prevent others from speaking. It all depends on the quality of the wielder.
He was a reporter. Another reporter with him said this on TV..he was let go in a minute..he was getting too “aggressive” with his questioning according to the other reporter.
And now I see VT is not planning to release any names till tomorrow. If I were a parent of a student there, I'd be camping in the admin office.
Man, can this Presser get anymore CYA? "Where do you lock them down?" Well, hey, how about radio, IM, etc....when the event happened? Not 2 hours later????
BBI Fan?
Hmmmmmm
If that is accurate that shooting had nothing to do with a girlfriend
Bump to your post.
Yes the asian looking guy on all fours on the ground was a Virginia Staff reporter for the newspaper . It was Confirmed on msnbc that he was reporting for the newspaper , & it was verfied by someone from the newspaper who the guy was .
Of course they need to investigate! WTH? It is a CRIME SCENE! A lover’s quarrell doesn’t explain more the THIRTY dead people! If you were a loved one of a victim, would you expect them to tell you what happened and why, or ould you just shrug and say, “Huh, lover’s quarrel.”
If what they’re saying about the police being unable to match fingerprints is true, then we can rule out that student charged with making a pipe bomb and lying about it. His fingerprints would have been on file.
Good work finding that, though.
Can't believe he said that. Guess the drills have been a total failure.
But you ignored the second half of my post. The reason why we have time, place, and manner restrictions is because the act of speech, in and of itself, is harmful to others.
Again, that is simply not present with gun ownership. My owning a gun, in and of itself, is not harmful to anyone, be it in an apartment off-campus or in a dormitory on campus.
I appreciate what you are saying, but your comparison simply is not apt.
It was stated in the news conference that two people were found shot in a dorm room, and transported to the hospital. Their identities have not been released yet.
I don’t know if they are dead or alive. Maybe another poster could clarify this.
I heard it was an overaggressive reporter.
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