Posted on 04/20/2007 2:46:06 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob
I live in western North Carolina, an area of the country in which there never has been, and never will be, a shooting like the one this week at Virginia Tech. There are plenty of guns in western Carolina. There are two universities and a college, where potential victims like those at Tech, can be found by the thousands.
But, we have a different culture, here. To my experience, more than half of all households in Carolina own multiple guns. More than a quarter of all the local trucks and vans on our highways are carrying guns, mostly handguns. And the people in Carolina who own those guns know exactly how to use them.
Only a small fraction of the gun owners here have taken any formal training in handling guns. Most of them have, however, grown up all their lives using guns. They all know the basic rule: do not aim a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them.
Some of the gun owners in Carolina are military veterans, where they received the most thorough training in using weapons, that anyone can get. The New York Times has mentioned, disparagingly, that rural men and women are more likely to join the military than those from suburbs or cities. The Times suggested falsely that rural youths have “nothing better to do,” and that’s why they sign up in greater proportion. No, it’s patriotism and pride; but those concepts are a tad foreign to the Times.
The bottom line is this: if any gunman started shooting students anywhere in western Carolina, he would never get to shoot more than 50 people, 32 of them fatally. The gunman himself would be dead before then, probably shot with a tight grouping by an armed civilian, even before any police could arrive on the scene. And, I suggest that our police would not hold back, fail to communicate, wait for orders.
The civilian shooter who would end the carnage in our part of the country could as well be a student as a teacher or other adult at any of our institutions. And if it turned out that the civilian shooter who dropped the murderer like a sack of feed, didn’t have a permit for his weapon? Well, the Sheriff of the appropriate county out this way would issue him a permit, and apologize for the delay. Any District Attorney who sought to prosecute the shooter who saved lives would be out of a job, as soon as the next election rolled around.
Let me explain the dynamics of “gun control.” I’ll do this in terms so clear that even Senator Barbara Boxer has a chance of understanding it. People who decide to shoot other people don’t give a cr*p about laws against murder. Obviously, they don’t give a cr*p about any laws on something as trivial as possessing a gun.
Therefore, ‘gun control” laws which makes it harder to buy, carry or use a gun, will have zero influence on those intending to murder their fellow citizens. If Senator Boxer wanted to find out how easy it is to get guns illegally, she should talk to police who are experienced in the weaponry available for cash on the barrel head, near any California high school, especially but not solely in the rough sections of town.
“Gun control” the way it is conceived and practiced by the likes of Senator Boxer means taking guns away from law-abiding citizens, and guaranteeing the criminals that they can ply their trade in a free-fire zone. Gun control, properly practiced, means take a wide stance, use both hands, “aim small to miss small,” and squeeze, don’t pull, the trigger.
Because a majority of the citizens in western Carolina practice that kind of gun control, that is why there never has been, and never will be, a shooting disaster here like there just was at Virginia Tech. A small story in a small newspaper, which the national press totally failed to notice, proves the point.
The Union Leader in Concord, New Hampshire, reported on 17 April a shooting the night before at the Uptown Tavern, Fifty people were present when one customer pulled a gun and started shooting. Nine shots were fired, the last two going into the shooter, from another customer who was carrying a weapon. No one was killed.
Now, that’s gun control.
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About the Author: John Armor practiced in the US Supreme Court for 33 years. John_Armor@aya.yale.edu He lives in the 11th District of North Carolina.
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About that Luby’s incident, the police chief of Belton TX said that if concealed carry was allowed, the death toll would have been much lower. But Ann Richards thought that the people of Texas were too stupid to handle guns.
Personally, I loved that little .45 Star PD I used to have. Short barrel, aluminum frame, and the great knockdown power I prefer was always on call.
The PPK of course kicks like a mule, worse in my opinion than my 1911A1 (it's so small and light, even the anemic .380 ACP can work up a pretty good punch).
I did not have any major problems with the fit on that concealable weapon, and it was going to spend the vast majority of its lifetime hidden away so the finish was unimportant as far as I was concerned.
Thanks for the info! Next week, I’m applying for a lifetime permit and then going *shopping*. I was leaning towards a S&W .38 but will definitely take a look at the PPK! Any problems with it jamming? Also, (if you don’t mind) pros and cons for either?
In ALL cases?
How many have you studied?
First of all, a semi-auto requires a lot more training than a revolver to become proficient and safe.
Second of all, it's now a collector's item (it wasn't really when I bought it - but that was a long time ago). You can figure on spending a LOT more than you would for a quality short barrel revolver.
Third of all, it DOES kick like a mule.
Finally, the .38 Special is a more powerful round, especially if you get the newer +P cartridges.
Disadvantages of the revolver are a bulkier sidearm & less concealable because of the cylinder, and only 5 or 6 rounds.
Back when I had to consider concealability under a business suit, the PPK was my summer carry because the 1911A1 wasn't concealable under a summer jacket. I used a shoulder holster because my suit skirts were fitted and didn't have a belt. (Most women find a waist carry awkward anyhow on account of having a waist and hips - of course a shoulder holster is awkward too if you have a bust. You just have to decide which is less awkward.) I've changed from the 1911 to a Sig P245, it's a little bulkier but it's DA. And because I can wear slacks to work now, I use a straight draw belt holster under a long jacket.
Another revolver you might consider, which has excellent knockdown power, is quite accurate, and doesn't really have any more kick than a .38 Special with +P loads - the old .44 Special (NOT the .44 Magnum, which is a silly cartridge for a carry gun, I don't care who you are.)
It will be a little harder to find ammo for it, but you don't have to hunt for a used one any more because a revived Charter Arms has reintroduced the Bulldog revolver. It runs around 300 clams, you could get a used Bulldog at a gun show for a little less (but not much less because they are in demand - I saw one locally at a gun show here for 250, it had obviously been carried til the blue wore off, but it was perfectly functional.)
I don't own a .38 special revolver - I have an ancient .38 S&W (not .38 special - the caliber is totally obsolete). But I'm not really a revolver person, because they just don't fit my hand right.
If that's the case with you -- if a semi-auto with its flatter sides is an easier hold and you shoot better with it -- you might want to consider devoting the extra time to training and becoming proficient. In that case, I would look at a semi-auto with a little more oomph than a .380 . . . maybe a .40 S&W or .45 ACP. Even a 9mm (not a caliber I love) is better than a .380.
Very, good, article. :)
The comment this pertained to was (post #15) — “I do not know whether Western Carolina University, UNC-Asheville, or Brevard College have policies like Virginia Tech to “bar” guns on campus. Those “bans” of course apply only to those who choose to obey that “law.””
And then I said (post #17) — “But, in all the cases where we’ve heard about these kinds of shootings, it hasn’t come out with a “good ending” where someone decided that they were not going to obey the ban.”
Then you come up and say (post #27) — “In ALL cases? How many have you studied?”
Okay, then, now that we’ve got the “conversation” and the “context” for this, let’s look at it.
It was noted in Post #15 that the bans may or may not be there in those universities. But, if they are, the poster was saying, in effect, that one could choose to disobey the ban and carry *anyway* (that’s the point of the comment).
And then I come back, in reference to the fact that one would be in a “no-gun area” and yet, still carry and disobey the law (or rules or regulations) — that in all cases, I’ve never heard of a situation where “such a thing” came out with a good ending (where they decided to disobey the law and carry anyway, and yet, they were able to somehow stop some killer or crime in a university area, as we were referring specifically to that, while generally to “no gun” areas in general).
In all the things I’ve seen on Free Republic, news accounts, TV and so on — and I do say *all* — I’ve never heard of such — absolutely never!
HOWEVER, from your statement/question — “In ALL cases?” — you seem to be implying that you have heard of such a case where one was carrying illegally, in a “no-gun” area of a university (or perhaps some other no-gun-zone), stopped some killing or crime (obviousy with the gun) — and yet have it come out with a “good ending”.
What I have heard of, is people getting prosecuted, after the fact. But, that’s certainly not a “good ending”, for sure...
So, since in “all cases” I’ve never heard of such a thing — and evidently *you* seem to be implying that *you have* — I would be very anxious to hear about that case...
Please proceed...
Regards,
Star Traveler
Switched recently to a Sig P245, but the Officer's Model is still my favorite.
I really can't carry a backup anywhere legal under GA law, although I guess I could have it in my purse as far as I'm concerned that's just a free bonus for purse-snatchers.
Most chain convenience stores have an official policy prohibiting clerks from carrying, and they fire those who are caught.
But the clerks quite rightly figure they won't have a job anyway if they're dead, and tote in violation of company policy.
Those encounters frequently have "happy endings". You can always find another job, after all.
The major pizza delivery chains also have no carry policies, but that didn't stop me from carrying when I did that work through college. Heck, the manager at my last store knew I carried - I even showed him my piece and went shooting with him a couple of times. He told me that if I ever had to use my gun on the job he'd have to fire me, and I told him I knew that and that I'd just find another job.
You said — “Those encounters frequently have “happy endings”. You can always find another job, after all.”
Well, the “not happy endings” is referring to the *consequences* that someone suffers when they violate the rule or policy or law.
For instance, the student in Colorado who was thrown into jail (I believe, or perhaps just arrested and released, don’t remember) and that was because he had guns in a no-gun-zone (at his university). Now, he’s facing all sorts of hassles and/or troubles.
Now, as far as the clerk who has shot at a robber, I would like to see that evidence of where there was a store policy and/or law on the books that prohibited that — and yet, when he (or she) shot a thief (or a potential thief, as it may be) — that he had no consequences for that (either legally or getting fired). That’s exactly what I’m talking about in regards to no good ending.
AND, the reason why I’m saying that, is that I hear some suggesting to *do it anyway* — regardless of the laws or policies and it just doesn’t matter. What I’m saying is that it’s *not going to be a good ending*.
That student in Colorado can attest to that right now. But, yes, tell me about some good endings (i.e., “no consequences for breaking university policy, store policy, business policy, city laws, state laws, etc. or whatever)...
I’d like to find that case...
Regards,
Star Traveler
You said — “He told me that if I ever had to use my gun on the job he’d have to fire me, and I told him I knew that and that I’d just find another job.”
Yep, that’s the example that I’m talking about — of “no good ending”. You use it, you’re fired... That’s entirely *typical*...
Regards,
Star Traveler
Between my Dad and brothers, I grew up shooting (and was a better shot than any of my brothers *snicker*), but it’s been awhile so I’ll definitely need some practice either way! lol I’ve always had a shotgun for home, but now I sometimes have to carry large amounts of cash (and even if the bank bag is empty, most people assume it’s not) and need something to carry.
I’m really short, so I don’t think I’d like the kick of the PPK. OTOH, I have small hands so I might like the way it fits my hand better. You’re right, the way my Dad’s .38 fits my hand leaves something to be desired, but I wondered if swapping out the grips might make it more comfortable.
I guess I’ll add the Bulldog to the list and test drive one of each. :\
Thanks for tons of useful info! At least now I have a better idea of what I’m looking for. :D
The shoulder rig was great for the Colt, and back when I was tossing weights about much more vigorously than I can manage today, the extra width across the shoulders made it visually impossible to detect... I also found that an ankle holster works well with comfortable jeans. Since you mentioned slacks, have you considered one?
H&K USP .40 Compact?
. . . talk about a mouse gun! I'm not sure you'd be able to stop a mouse, let alone a rat.
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