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Postures in Public, Facts in the Womb
New York Times ^ | 22 April 2007 | David Brooks

Posted on 04/22/2007 4:31:54 AM PDT by shrinkermd

...In short, when you focus on the fetus, you see a process of emerging life that begins with small biological clumps and culminates by the third trimester with a creature who is not significantly different from a living baby. And the obvious mystery is: When in this continuous process does human life begin?

And yet when you look at the abortion debate that grows from this mystery, you find that over the years, adults have built these vast layers of argument and counterargument, and the core issue is buried far down below.

The Carhart case, is prompted by revulsion over the practice of killing late-term fetuses. Yet for reasons having to do with political tactics, the law that was upheld wouldn’t even prevent a single late-term abortion. It would forbid doctors from crushing the skull of the fetus, but would permit them to poison and dismember it. Furthermore, the reasoning Justice Anthony Kennedy used to uphold the law — mothers who may come to regret their abortions — is bizarre, and removed from the revulsion that prompted the whole issue.

Meanwhile, when you look at the statements of the abortion rights forces, you find they can’t even look this matter in the face. Read the statements by the Democratic presidential candidates. Read the protests from Planned Parenthood and Naral. They can’t even bring themselves to mention the word “fetus.” They are terrified of having an honest discussion about human life, so they have built this lofty etiquette of evasion that treats abortion as ...a tonsillectomy.

If we could get this issue away from the abortion professionals and their orthodoxies, we could reach a sensible solution: abortion would be legal, with parental consent for minors, during the first four or five months, and illegal except in extremely rare circumstances afterward....

(Excerpt) Read more at select.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; carhart; case
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David Brooks has recently stated he left the Republican Party, but note he sees the problems much the same as most conservatives but tempers this with a compromise.

I am sorry this cannot be accessed by everyone--it requires 50$ a year to get some materials from the NYT.

1 posted on 04/22/2007 4:31:58 AM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: shrinkermd
If we could get this issue away from the abortion professionals and their orthodoxies, we could reach a sensible solution: abortion would be legal, with parental consent for minors, during the first four or five months, and illegal except in extremely rare circumstances afterward....

What's worse, entering into a Faustian Bargain or being the guy who dreams it up?

2 posted on 04/22/2007 4:34:55 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Thank you St. Jude.)
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To: shrinkermd
process of emerging life

Coing a new phrase here? Every cell in a living human body is alive. Duh!

There is no "emerging."

Thanks for posting this. Will be interesting to see if Brooks' opinion gets traction.

3 posted on 04/22/2007 4:42:39 AM PDT by don-o (Proudly posting without reading the thread since 1998.)
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To: shrinkermd
If we could get this issue away from the abortion professionals

That's my thinking. If they take money for performing an abortion threw them in the worst prison we got for the rest of their lives.

That's what he means by "abortion professional" right?

4 posted on 04/22/2007 4:47:35 AM PDT by Tribune7 (A bleeding heart does nothing but ruin the carpet)
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To: shrinkermd
we could reach a sensible solution: abortion would be legal, with parental consent for minors, during the first four or five months, and illegal except in extremely rare circumstances afterward....

That's a sensible solution? No, thank you.

5 posted on 04/22/2007 4:51:18 AM PDT by Elyse (I refuse to feed the crocodile.)
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To: shrinkermd
The name David Brooks rang a bell, but I wasn't sure. Here's a snip from his Wikipedia.

_____________________________________

Though he opposes what he sees as self-destructive behavior like teenage sex and divorce, Brooks is not a culture warrior in the traditional sense. His view is that "sex is more explicit everywhere...except in real life. As the entertainment media have become more sex-saturated, American teenagers have become more sexually abstemious" by "waiting longer to have sex...[and] having fewer partners." He sees the culture war as nearly over, because "today's young people...seem happy with the frankness of the left and the wholesomeness of the right." As a result, he is optimistic about the United States' social stability, which he considers to be "in the middle of an amazing moment of improvement and repair." (New York Times, April 17, 2005, 4-14.)

Brooks also broke with many in the conservative movement when, in late 2003, he came out in favor of same-sex marriage in his New York Times column. He equated the idea with traditional conservative values: "We should insist on gay marriage. We should regard it as scandalous that two people could claim to love each other and not want to sanctify their love with marriage and fidelity.... It's going to be up to conservatives to make the important, moral case for marriage, including gay marriage." (New York Time

6 posted on 04/22/2007 4:52:11 AM PDT by don-o (Proudly posting without reading the thread since 1998.)
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To: shrinkermd

Advances in neonatology are making the boundary between late term abortion and infanticide a distinction without a difference.


7 posted on 04/22/2007 5:03:18 AM PDT by sono (TITUS PVLLO in MMVIII - Paid for by the Aventine for Pullo)
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To: Elyse
Agreed!

Life begins at conception.

To that there is no mystery, except for those who want to play God.

8 posted on 04/22/2007 5:14:47 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: sono

I also hope for an outbreak of simple logic. If one is repulsed by skull crushing the almost born, perhaps one can be led to understand that every fertilized ovum will eventually grow a skull if it is simply left alone.


9 posted on 04/22/2007 5:18:17 AM PDT by don-o (Proudly posting without reading the thread since 1998.)
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To: Northern Yankee
Life begins at conception. To that there is no mystery, except for those who want to play God.

Exactly. It's a human being, no matter what stage of development, in the womb or outside the womb.

10 posted on 04/22/2007 5:27:38 AM PDT by Elyse (I refuse to feed the crocodile.)
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To: Northern Yankee
Life begins at conception.

I prefer to think that life began a long time ago, and that life does not begin at conception , it is merely passed on, like a flame from candle to candle. Life is a continuum. This avoids the debate of when life begins, and all I see is the flame of life snuffed out during an abortion.

11 posted on 04/22/2007 5:48:41 AM PDT by Mark was here (Hard work never killed anyone, but why take the chance?)
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To: don-o
We should regard it as scandalous that two people could claim to love each other and not want to sanctify their love with marriage and fidelity.

I love my daughter. I think she loves me. Is this guy suggesting that there is something "scandalous" about our not sanctifying this love "with marriage and fidelity"? Or maybe does marriage maybe mean something about which this guy has no clue?

As for abortion, it appears to me that reason is beginning to encroach on this guy's leftist mind. He has decide that those "fetuses" are real human beings, but he just cannot bring himself to want to save them all.

ML/NJ

12 posted on 04/22/2007 6:04:33 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: shrinkermd
we could reach a sensible solution: abortion would be legal, with parental consent for minors, during the first four or five months,

In other words, keep killing babies as long as they're small enough that we can pretend they aren't human.

Sorry, David. God is not mocked.

13 posted on 04/22/2007 6:08:46 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: Tax-chick

Amen bump to that, chick!


14 posted on 04/22/2007 6:10:52 AM PDT by don-o (Proudly posting without reading the thread since 1998.)
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To: Mark was here
"Life is a continuum"

You're thinking of Star Trek
15 posted on 04/22/2007 6:27:35 AM PDT by NewCenturions (ngoh gong ta m ho)
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To: NewCenturions
"Life is a continuum" You're thinking of Star Trek.

Did not think of that. :) I am just trying to say that life just does not "spontiantiously combust" at conception. Life is passed on from generation to generation. Abortion ends the life. From the first cells to the first breath what is consistent is the flame of life, that the abortionist snuffs out.

16 posted on 04/22/2007 6:41:47 AM PDT by Mark was here (Hard work never killed anyone, but why take the chance?)
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To: Mark was here

That’s a nice explanation if you don’t believe in God. Think of “flame of life” another word for “soul”. (God gives a soul). At least we agree that abortion snuffs out life. Live long and prosper, my friend!


17 posted on 04/22/2007 6:45:09 AM PDT by NewCenturions (ngoh gong ta m ho)
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To: don-o

Thanks, Don-o.

I can’t understand Mr. Brooks. He’s not stupid, in any objective sense, and so he can’t be unaware that his position is insane. Why does he so badly want unborn babies to die? Who does he think benefits from this?

And why does he think anyone would consider his proposal “reasonable,” when it’s so perfectly arbitrary, unconnected to any known facts?


18 posted on 04/22/2007 6:49:32 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: Mark was here

I see your point. Both the sperm and the egg are living human cells, and so there is no “addition” of life, in the strictest sense, when they combine to form a new person. There is only the addition of a new person, who is neither the mother nor the father.


19 posted on 04/22/2007 6:51:21 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("And he had turned the Prime Minister's teacup into a gerbil.")
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To: NewCenturions
The thing about “life” is what a miracle it is, and we can thank God for it.
20 posted on 04/22/2007 7:14:30 AM PDT by Mark was here (Hard work never killed anyone, but why take the chance?)
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