Wiccan symbol OK for soldiers' graves

CNN ^ | April 23, 2007

[Dawsonville_Doc]

You used it as a verb.

Yes, I did. Amazing what paying attention in grammar school will let one do.

I don't believe in it. I would have more respect for it if its practitioners were honest about its provenance.

The exact same thing could be said for Christianity. Your point is irrelevant to the thread.

Wiccans however do, and go to great lengths to create the illusion that their religion predates Christianity.

Again, irrelevant to the thread. Wicca is officially recognized by the government of the United States of America. Wiccans don't need to prove anything to anybody, you included.

By the way, Judaism predates Christianity by thousands of years, but I don't see any reports of Jews distraught over crosses on gravestones. You have yet to answer my question- Would you deny Wiccans their commonly accepted religious symbol on their gravestones?

[Brouhaha]

I am aware that there are other religious symbols at Arlington (as well as everywhere else in the world). Thanks for the insightful religious education, though.

As I understand it, the pentagram has several associations that would offend a wide range of people including my relatives who are buried at Arlington and who had no problems with any of the other religious symbols there.

And, to answer your question about islamic crescents, that wouldn’t thrill me either. As with seeing the pentagram around my grandfather’s grave, I would consider it sad.

Finally, to your question about Arlington being exclusively Christian, it is not. Nor has it ever occurred to me that it should be.

Nonetheless, there is this wonderful thing about life in which one can disapprove of the choices and actions of others. Even find them sad. Are you going to tell me that the world is for collectivist “yes” men or is it okay with you if I have my own opinion?

[null and void]

Excellent answer! I was trying to ‘get a read’ on where you were coming from.

You are A-OK in my book. Our views are surprisingly close, but not identical.

I’m less offended by the Pentagram than the crescent. I think that has more to do with knowing lots of Wiccans and muslims and having a preference as to who I’d rather trust with my back...

[Brouhaha]

Thanks! You are most definitely A-OK with me, too.

Best!

[jwalsh07]

Fine by me.

[wideawake]

The exact same thing could be said for Christianity.

No, it couldn't.

Wicca is officially recognized by the government of the United States of America.

The US government doesn't "recognize" religions.

By the way, Judaism predates Christianity by thousands of years, but I don't see any reports of Jews distraught over crosses on gravestones.

One factor in their nonchalance might be that Christians don't fraudulently claim that Christianity actually predates Judaism.

Would you deny Wiccans their commonly accepted religious symbol on their gravestones?

Would you read my posts on this thread and acknowledge that I already answered this question?

[Dawsonville_Doc]

The US government doesn't "recognize" religions.

Yes, it does. That's how a religion receives tax exempt status. The religion must be recognized by the government.

What is your issue with when Wicca began? Would you feel better if it was simply called Paganism? For that absolutely does predate Christianity, and Wicca is a denomination thereof. Unless you're Catholic, your denomination didn't begin in 30AD. You plan on holding that against Protestants?

If you don't have an issue with what symbol they use, why don't you honor the sacrifice of the soldier, get off your timeline soapbox, and go on with your life? You are dishonoring these soldiers with your petty argument.

[wideawake]

Yes, it does. That's how a religion receives tax exempt status. The religion must be recognized by the government.

A religion receives tax exempt status by submitting paperwork to the government claiming to be tax exempt as a 501(c)(3). This covers non-profit religious, charitable, scientific and other sorts of organizations. The government does not opine one way or the other as to whether any specific 501(c)(3) is a religion or not.

What is your issue with when Wicca began? Would you feel better if it was simply called Paganism?

There is existing paganism in the world today, as practiced in Africa, Micronesia, etc. It bears almost no relation to Wicca.

Why not simply tell the truth and say: "Wicca is religion invented in the 1950s by Gerald Gardner."

Wicca is a denomination thereof.

Paganism is not organized into denominations. That is a retrojection of Christianity onto a religion which never possessed such a concept.

Unless you're Catholic, your denomination didn't begin in 30AD. You plan on holding that against Protestants?

Well, as a Catholic, I don't much hold it against Protestants. I do find it amusing when certain individual Protestants claim that their particular denomination always existed from the beginning of Christianity and was just in hiding until it popped up on the historical map a millenium later.

But Protestants usually acknowledge the historical origin of their religion: Lutherans acknowledge Luther, Calvinists and Presbyterians acknowledge Calvinism and his presbyteral form of church government, etc.

If you don't have an issue with what symbol they use, why don't you honor the sacrifice of the soldier, get off your timeline soapbox, and go on with your life?

Because I want to point out to those who take this decision by the military as some kind of affirmation of Wicca's bizarrely ahistorical claims that this decision is not a validation of the authenticity of those claims.

You are dishonoring these soldiers with your petty argument.

I'm dishonoring no one. You're getting emotional for no reason.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

On mine, I want pepperoni.

If you die in service to your country then you should be allowed to have it.

I would even fight for your right to have green peppers there. And I view green peppers as the Ultimate Evil(TM).

[sam_paine]

Phelps ain’t gonna like this.

[TexasChip]

"This settlement has forced the Bush Administration into acknowledging that there are no second class religions in America, including among our nation's veterans," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represented the Wiccans in the lawsuit.

That should read Democratically Controlled Congress instead of the Bush Administration. I do believe that Congress has oversight of the VA. In fact, there are whole committees (29 members-House and 15 members-Senate) with the requisite staff whose only job is oversight of the VA.

The Democratically Controlled Congress is obviously negligent in their oversight responsibilities.

It may be time for the House and Senate to have hearings to see why those committees can't do the simplist things. The Democrat heads of those committees need be brought before themselves to address these issues.

That said, I do not see why an expensive lawsuit had to be initiated to get the pentacle added to the approved list of 37 other symbols. Seems like a simple VA form could have handled it. Maybe one of the multitude of Democratically Controlled congress people or their staff assigned to oversight of the VA could take 10 minutes and come up with the form.

Have you seen the symbols that can be on the headstones now? I am surprised that corporations like McDonalds and Coke haven't gotten their logos added yet.

[RGPII]

http://www.circlesanctuary.org/liberty/veteranpentacle/

Found these photos of headstones and just found this thread after talking to someone about this this morning.

[Ueriah]

I agree 100% with those who feel that they can have whatever they like on thier gravestones. They are heroes who gave thier lives to keep our freedoms for us.

[Ueriah]

I agree 100% with those who feel that they can have whatever they like on thier gravestones. They are heroes who gave thier lives to keep our freedoms for us.