Stone case may set tone for Haditha prosecutions [Capt. Randy W. Stone, Article 32]

North County Times ^ | May 5, 2007 | MARK WALKER

[RedRover]

I hadn’t heard that the Wests were onboard. Thanks for that.

[Godwin1]

This is a disgrace! Never in American history has a major US military organization been “led” by such careerist cowards. Commandant Conway and his senior staff are sacrificing these boys to appease Murtha and the liberal media. This is a witch hunt, a lynching in which good men are being stabbed in the back by their own “leaders”. NO young person should even think of joining the marines while the current spineless leadership remains in place.

[Chickenhawk Warmonger]

I found this comment in an interview that Bing West gave to the Columbia Journalism Review. In light of the start of the Article 32 hearings, I thought this was a great reminder for us all...

Then as a country we have to ask ourselves “Who will fight five years from now?” It’s fine to criticize policy, but at the same time we should at least understand the fighting and give credit to them for their courage, instead of treating them as victims, because they’re not victims. They’re aggressive hunters. And that’s what this country needs. You need tough guys in the Marine Corps. And so my final message is teach the free man to praise, and if [a soldier] gets into hand-to-hand [combat] in those houses then you should say, “By gosh, I thank you for that kind of courage.” Because those jihadists are out to kill us. I mean, coulda-shoulda-woulda, why are we in Iraq? I view all that as yesterday’s newspaper, in one way. We are in a death struggle with these guys, and we better understand that. These Marines are the ones out there doing the fighting, but if the jihadists took over Iraq, they wouldn’t declare a truce, so we’re gradually going to have to stand up the Iraqi army and Iraq hopefully will be more like Colombia than like Lebanon. It’ll never be perfect the way people hope, but we have to give praise to these Marines for their valor.

http://www.cjrdaily.org/the_water_cooler/bing_west_on_the_marines_the_p.php

[RedRover]

Wonder if he made some heads explode at Columbia?

I love this quote on the same topic...

"In World War II, the Western press--believing in its cause--had extolled the Greatest Generation of Americans. The warriors who fought in Iraq would not be called the Greatest Generation, because America was divided about the cause for which they were dying. The focus of the press was upon their individual deaths as tragedies.

"This was an incomplete portrayal. The fierce fighting at Fallujah attested to the stalwart nature of the American soldier. In The Iliad a warrior turned to his companion and said, 'Let us win glory for ourselves or yield it to others.' For Greek warriors, there was no true glory if they were not remembered afterward in poem or in song. There will be no true glory for our soldiers in Iraq unless they are recognized not as victims, but as aggressive warriors. Stories of their bravery deserved to be recorded and read by the next generation. Unsung, the noblest deed will die."

--Bing West, No True Glory: A Frontline Account of the Battle for Fallujah

[xone]

‘No offense to the Army, but they are not trained for the kind of fight that cleared Fallujah in ‘04.’

That may come as news to the two Cav Bns that were at Fallujah. I’m a ‘Corpsaphile’ as well, but the Army deserves their accolades in the WOT. A well-trained motivated force. I do believe there is some USA influence that started this goat rope, but the idea of JAGs with Army units is more established and has a longer history. I suspect the Marines accused will be cleared in the end, because if the info out on this event is accurate, the Marines did nothing wrong. Unfortunately the wheels of justice grind slowly, Marine Corps justice even more slowly. Besides the negative propaganda value of this ‘story’ for our enemies, the worst aspect of this affair could be a tendency to not aggressively pursue the enemy. That will result in more casualties.

[Lancey Howard]

Thad Coakley, a former Marine who prosecuted hundreds of court-martials at Camp Pendleton and served as a battalion lawyer in Iraq from August 2004 to March 2005, helped establish the system that puts lawyers such as Stone with combat battalions in war zones.

The lawyers are responsible for reviewing combat action reports to make sure there are no violations of the rules of engagement, which forbid the killing of civilians unless unavoidable.

Gary Solis, a former Marine Corps attorney who teaches law at Georgetown University, said the charges against Stone are troublesome. "It could open a Pandora's box by suggesting that lawyers should start looking over their commander's tactical decisions," he said.

_______________________________________________

Scary, scary stuff.
But you have to lay the blame for this disgrace at the feet of the President and Commander in Chief, George Bush. Mice like Thad Coakley and his ilk should not be running a war.

[RedRover]

You’re right. I was thinking of urban close combat where Marines are trained to go in with overwhelming force. If that changes, if we fight to avoid casualities of any kind, we may as well paint our helmets blue.

[DPMD]

I like your thinking, but take it a step further. Give them all guns, put them on the front lines, and let them feel the heat of both combat and Monday morning quarterbacking. If they are KIA, no great loss. If they survive, maybe they see the light.

[freema]

bump

[DJ Taylor]

I had a feeling this war was going to end badly when, at the beginning of this war, LTC Allen West was relieved of his command for talking mean and firing his weapon while interrogating an Iraqi terrorist.

In my humble opinion, we, as a nation, have lost all sense of direction concerning what war is and why a country enters into such an undertaking. If a people are not ready, willing, and able to kill every man, woman, and child of their enemy, they should not let loose the dogs of war but should stay home and work industriously on perfecting their Maginot Line construction and white flag production. Or would that be Minaret construction and prayer rug production in our case?

[RedRover]

Any idea what became of LTC West? Was he court martialed?

[Girlene]

It appears that LTC Allen West (now retired from the Army) is currently serving in Kandahar, Afghanistan training Afghan Army officers in a civilian capacity. According to this link, there is some speculation he may challenge Congressman Ron Klein for Florida’s 22nd District congressional seat in 2008.
http://www.opinionbug.com/?p=1851

Did you realize his attorney was Neal Puckett, the same defense atty for SSGT Frank Wuterich in the Haditha case? Sounds like Frank is in good hands with Mr. Puckett.

[RedRover]

Do you know if it went to a hearing? I’m guessing retirement was part of an agreement?

[Girlene]

They had the preliminary hearing but it never went to a court martial. He was reprimanded, fined (maybe $5,000?) and retired with his rank intact and with 20 years. He originally was just 3 days short of his 20 years, when he was charged. He was given a choice to either quit (w/o retirement), or go to court martial and risk 8 yrs in prison. He fought it. It sounded like the Army lost a good man at the time.

[Marine_Uncle]

"A movie based on the battle of Fallujah is set for release in 08 (with Harrison Ford as Gen. Mattis). I don’t have any inside info, but grumblings have started that it will be the usual leftist twaddle."
And I have had a fear this would be the only way the movie would be made. Eastwood would have done no better or for that matter most any Hollywood producer.
Probably the only one that would put together a really great movie on this would have been Bruce Willis. He most likely would have produced a flick that would bring true honor to the Corps..