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Rudolph Giuliani on Abortion
FOX News ^ | May 14, 2007 | By Father Jonathan Morris

Posted on 05/14/2007 2:30:19 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

Rudolph Giuliani is making a gamble, which, if successful, will change the face of partisan politics in America: You don’t have to be pro-life or pro-traditional family to be a Republican — you just have to be tough on terror.

After his debut at the first Republican debate, Giuliani infamously wiggled on the question of abortion. On Friday, Giuliani spoke to a conservative group in Texas and clarified his solidly pro-choice position.

In effect, Giuliani reaffirmed his 1997 answers to NARAL Pro-Choice America’s questionnaire in which he supports tax dollars going to every form of abortion, including partial-birth abortion and abortions for minors without parental notification.

On almost every social issue, Giuliani is separating himself from the official party platform. Last week, I highlighted his very mixed record on immigration reform. Add to this his support for gay marriage, strict gun control, embryonic stem-cell research, and above all his renewed advocacy for every type of abortion, and it’s fair to say, that if the Republican party nominates him as their candidate, they will be saying social issues don’t really matter … that much.

Rudolph Giuliani’s gamble is not a secret. On Friday, he explained his rationale:

“The mere fact that I am standing here running for president of the United States with the views that I have, that are different in some respects on some of these issues, shows that we much more adequately represent the length and breadth and the opinions of America than the other party does.”

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; elections; giuliani; moralabsolutes; prolife
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"In other words, according to Giuliani, Republicans should broaden the tent pegs and welcome people like him who align themselves with the social platform of their competing party. I don’t think his rationale will work. Thinking Republicans aren’t Republicans because they like the sound of the name, or because they have a particular attraction toward elephants. They choose their party (as do thinking Democrats) because its platform is most consistent with their views. It is logical to assume that if the Republican platform changes on the issues its constituents care about deeply, they will change parties or start their own."
1 posted on 05/14/2007 2:30:20 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Giuliani; All

“If Rudolph Giuliani is nominated as the Republican candidate, it will signify a monumental shift in American politics. Republicans would be telling their leaders they care less about who they are and what they stand for, and more about being around, safely, to talk about it. That kind of shallow thinking, I suggest, would be hard for thinking people to get excited about.”

~~Father Jonathan Morris


2 posted on 05/14/2007 2:32:12 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Our God-given unalienable rights are not open to debate, negotiation or compromise!)
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To: Jim Robinson

“It is logical to assume that if the Republican platform changes on the issues its constituents care about deeply, they will change parties or start their own.”

Yep. Nails it absolutely.


3 posted on 05/14/2007 2:33:54 PM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: Jim Robinson

Cmon now Jim. You know as well as I that Rudy only praised Margaret Sanger, NARAL, Planned Parenthood and Bella Abzug because of their commitment to adoptions.


4 posted on 05/14/2007 2:34:55 PM PDT by pissant
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To: Jim Robinson
On almost every social issue, Giuliani is separating himself from the official party platform. Last week, I highlighted his very mixed record on immigration reform. Add to this his support for gay marriage, strict gun control, embryonic stem-cell research, and above all his renewed advocacy for every type of abortion, and it’s fair to say, that if the Republican party nominates him as their candidate, they will be saying social issues don’t really matter … that much.

**************

The primaries in '08 will be crucial to the survival of the Republican Party. We must nominate a conservative.

5 posted on 05/14/2007 2:36:20 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Jim Robinson; monkapotamus; wagglebee; All

OMG MONK and Wagglebee get in here NOWWW ROFL


6 posted on 05/14/2007 2:41:31 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: Jim Robinson; TommyDale; Liz

What’s the point of safety, if the reasons to protect it are no longer safe and mean nothing? Geez, Why is that such a toughie for most people?

I must be nuts to think that if there is nothing to protect that means anything, why trouble yourself with it? Okay it must be another Rudy ploy.

Rudy just wants to win.


7 posted on 05/14/2007 2:41:51 PM PDT by dforest (Fighting the new liberal Conservatism. The Left foot in the GOP door.)
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To: trisham
Could it perhaps be time for the GOP to sink into the sunset and a new party really supported by and represented by real conservatives to emerge?

For me, the boat left the GOP pier quite some time ago. Although I still vote for most of their candidates for lack of a viable alternative, especially since so far I am not really into casting protest votes with any of the current crop of Third Parties.

8 posted on 05/14/2007 2:46:25 PM PDT by ImpBill ("America ... Where are you now?" --Greg Adams--Brownsville, TX --On the other Front Line)
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To: Jim Robinson
That kind of shallow thinking, I suggest, would be hard for thinking people to get excited about.” ~~Father Jonathan Morris

I agree. The good Father is right, of course. But we have an abundance of unthinking people even in the GOP. Sadly.

9 posted on 05/14/2007 2:47:03 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: indylindy

By the time Giuliani gets finished separating himself from the Republican platform, he will only have half of the the New Yorkers left in the entire GOP! LOL!


10 posted on 05/14/2007 2:49:34 PM PDT by TommyDale (More Americans are killed each day in the U.S. by abortion than were killed on 9/11 !)
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To: ImpBill
Could it perhaps be time for the GOP to sink into the sunset and a new party really supported by and represented by real conservatives to emerge?

************

I don't know, but it's a worthwhile question to debate.

11 posted on 05/14/2007 2:50:21 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Jim Robinson
If NARAL gives Rudolph Giuliani an A+ for his views on abortion, should be there any doubt that, as president, he would find “constitutionalists” who would defend Roe v Wade?

And who would defend gay marriage. And who would redefine the second amendment as applying only to the National Guard. And who would approve of experimentation on unborn human beings. And who would support assisted suicide and euthanasia of useless eaters as constitutional rights. And who would find a constitutional right for illegal aliens to go on welfare and get free schooling and medical care. And so on.

It depends on what the meaning of "is" is. Strict construction is as strict construction does.

12 posted on 05/14/2007 2:51:23 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Jim Robinson
Rudy sees the Republican Party through the prism of his North Eastern metropolitan background. He believes social and political Conservatives today are a fairly small and dying wing of the party. WRONG!

His renewed stance as pro-abortion, his continued stance regarding gun control, his developing campaign plan that he can win as a Republican solely on the issue of security, all tell me that he is either way out of touch, is getting extremely bad advice, or both.

Regardless of the answer, it makes me happy.

"So long, Rudy
It's been good to know ya
So long, Rudy
It's been good to know ya
So long, Rudy
It's been good to know ya
It's time to leave ya now".

Bye Bye!

13 posted on 05/14/2007 2:52:37 PM PDT by bcsco
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To: Jim Robinson

Is it just me, or does it seem like the pro-Rudy crowd on FR has been noticeably quieter the last couple of weeks?


14 posted on 05/14/2007 2:55:55 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Duncan Hunter wears Fred Thompson pajamas!)
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To: indylindy
What’s the point of safety, if the reasons to protect it are no longer safe and mean nothing?

I think the only "safety" that is really under consideration here is the safety of certain political sinecures long held by GOP hacks. Apparently a sizable group of our Republican elites have decided that this kind of safety can only be achieved by tossing the social conservatives overboard--except for those who, like Sean Hannity, are persuadable.

15 posted on 05/14/2007 2:57:25 PM PDT by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
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To: indylindy; Jim Robinson; TommyDale

It’s a commentary on his contempt for social conservatives that Rooty demands ONLY pro-life conservatives compromise their principles.

Every other group gets a free ride.

Rooty’s power-tripping on the backs of the unborn is unconscionable.


16 posted on 05/14/2007 2:57:54 PM PDT by Liz (Rudy Giuliani: Guinness World Record for Having The Most Positions on Abortion.)
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To: Jim Robinson

“It is logical to assume that if the Republican platform changes on the issues its constituents care about deeply, they will change parties or start their own.”

So true. We must however fight to ensure a Conservative Candidate on the Republican Party ticket for ‘08 as should Conservatives find it necessary to form a third party, or join an existing third party, then it will take considerable time and expense to build that party to National prominence necessary to be viable in future elections.

Switching to a third party in the current run-up to the ‘08 elections would present tremendous advantage to the Democraps leaving America’s fate to the insidious Left and the IslamoFascist Vultures will be picking meat from our bones soon thereafter.


17 posted on 05/14/2007 2:59:49 PM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists...call 'em what you will...They ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Thanks for posting these articles. I’m starting to notice that the remaining rudybots seem to avoid the ones you post. So maybe you could post some “pro” rudy articles, with the immediate deconstructions and then when the rudybots get on them and say we’re being too harsh, we could say to take it up with the owner of the thread and the website?


18 posted on 05/14/2007 3:03:27 PM PDT by Kevmo (Duncan Hunter just needs one Rudy G Campaign Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM)
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To: Liz; TommyDale; Jim Robinson
It’s a commentary on his contempt for social conservatives that Rooty demands ONLY pro-life conservatives compromise their principles.

Ah, but Rooty is supposedly promising us that the erradication of social issues from his agenda is just a temporary thing. We are voting for him for his toughness.

Damn, I just can't quite believe a cross dresser and a liberal when they make promises.

Could it be Rooty is just a social liberal out to destroy the GOP and promote the liberal agenda?

19 posted on 05/14/2007 3:15:56 PM PDT by dforest (Fighting the new liberal Conservatism. The Left foot in the GOP door.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
..does it seem like the pro-Rudy crowd on FR has been noticeably quieter the last couple of weeks?..

Not quieter; gone.

20 posted on 05/14/2007 3:19:25 PM PDT by MrNatural ("...You want the truth!?...")
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Is it just me, or does it seem like the pro-Rudy crowd on FR has been noticeably quieter the last couple of weeks?

It's called forced censorship,, a lot of good people have had their membership revoked.

How can anyone learn anything when everyone in the room thinks the same?

Debate is always good - closing off debate - well.......

But the Golden Rule is what it is - the man makes the rules..

21 posted on 05/14/2007 3:20:36 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Is it just me, or does it seem like the pro-Rudy crowd on FR has been noticeably quieter the last couple of weeks?

That is kind of funny. It was like "a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."

Viking Kitties have a way of doing that.

They got banned or opused out to go to an antifreeper forum. Yawn. It was probably less than one hundred of them and many of them had made other people here miserable for years.
22 posted on 05/14/2007 3:20:50 PM PDT by George W. Bush (Election Math For Dummies: GOP Rudi = Hillary)
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To: trisham

What you suggest will not happen. Instead, the democrat party will win elections and will continue to move the country more and more to the left. If conservatives could have formed a viable national party, we would have done so by now. In truth, conservatives represent about 20-30% of the republican base, and as such, can exert real influence but cannot dictate every national policy. Best to use that influence wisely and to support candidates who are best (or least harmful) for our county’s future.


23 posted on 05/14/2007 3:22:27 PM PDT by Continental Soldier
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: SevenofNine; Jim Robinson; 230FMJ; 49th; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


25 posted on 05/14/2007 3:49:55 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Jake The Goose; Liz; TommyDale; Jim Robinson
But the Golden Rule is what it is - the man makes the rules.

Remember Jake, the rules for the GOP were made a long time ago.

Life has a need to keep moving along. It is at its best when we do not promote in any way the immoral, self serving destruction of it. Convenience, is comfort without taking any responsibility.

I have noticed when I visit WideAwakes, they all seem to march to the same drummer.

At least at FR, the people are for the little babies and for promoting the human condition! We are at least promoting the furtherance of our culture rather than than acquiescence to the destruction of it!

26 posted on 05/14/2007 3:50:01 PM PDT by dforest (Fighting the new liberal Conservatism. The Left foot in the GOP door.)
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To: George W. Bush
That is kind of funny. It was like "a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."

Viking Kitties have a way of doing that.

LOL! How true.

27 posted on 05/14/2007 4:03:26 PM PDT by Sister_T (The Axis of Idiocy: The LameStream Media, The DemocRATS and the "peaceful" anti-war moonbats)
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To: TommyDale; jimrob
Last week I was zotted (for several days) for what was termed a "personal insult" in one of my posts. I was guilty.

Is TommyDale guilty?

"You should change your screen name to Jake the Horse's Ass".

I expect others to follow the same guidelines I was rightly held to.

28 posted on 05/14/2007 4:08:18 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Jake The Goose; Jim Robinson; indylindy; Liz

Jake, you accused the owner of this conservative website as being a censor. You know better than that!


29 posted on 05/14/2007 4:09:54 PM PDT by TommyDale (More Americans are killed each day in the U.S. by abortion than were killed on 9/11 !)
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To: TommyDale

I apologize to Jim Robinson.

Now - you owe me an apology.


30 posted on 05/14/2007 4:14:35 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: TommyDale; Jake The Goose; Liz; Jim Robinson
Jake, you accused the owner of this conservative website as being a censor. You know better than that!

I don't know Jim Robinson, but I do believe he is only promoting this site as a conservative site.

It seems very natural to oppose liberals and liberal candidates on FR.

I believe it is wise, just wise, to keep that in mind. Rooty is a very liberal guy, not conservative material. Opposition to him here is what most would expect!

31 posted on 05/14/2007 4:15:29 PM PDT by dforest (Fighting the new liberal Conservatism. The Left foot in the GOP door.)
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To: Jake The Goose

Actually, you should apologize to who you made the statement to as well, and others on the thread who read it. Meanwhile, I apologize.


32 posted on 05/14/2007 4:16:12 PM PDT by TommyDale (More Americans are killed each day in the U.S. by abortion than were killed on 9/11 !)
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To: TommyDale; Jake The Goose; Liz; Jim Robinson
Actually, you should apologize to who you made the statement to as well, and others on the thread who read it. Meanwhile, I apologize.

OMG, apologies all around, I'm buyin!

33 posted on 05/14/2007 4:19:26 PM PDT by dforest (Fighting the new liberal Conservatism. The Left foot in the GOP door.)
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To: indylindy

IndyLindy

I respect your civility - but some seem to “have it out for me” - sounds paranoid.

I don’t oppose opposing views on any issues - that’s my point - I welcome it.

I feel like some continuously threaten me for my opinions?

It’s crazy.

Why can’t I engage people with my views - I am not asking anyone to join my views - I simply expect I should be able to speak my mind.

Everyone should have the right - right?

Again - thanks for your tone - it is appreciated.


34 posted on 05/14/2007 4:19:50 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: indylindy

Scotch?


35 posted on 05/14/2007 4:20:44 PM PDT by TommyDale (More Americans are killed each day in the U.S. by abortion than were killed on 9/11 !)
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To: TommyDale; All

I apologize to everyone for my tone in this thread.

I got hostile - and I am sorry.

I want to feel like I can express my opinions without being tagged or flagged, etc.

FR is great site for anyone who wants to talk about just about anything.

If we differ in our views - I hope I personally can maintain a civil tone - and invite anyone to express any view they might have. I want open dialog.

Debate is our best opportunity to learn.

Again - to all - I apologize for my bad tone earlier.

No excuse.


36 posted on 05/14/2007 4:23:56 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Jake The Goose; indylindy; Liz

We all think open dialog and debate is healthy, but trying to constantly defend someone who violates our core beliefs is not acceptable.


37 posted on 05/14/2007 4:27:12 PM PDT by TommyDale (More Americans are killed each day in the U.S. by abortion than were killed on 9/11 !)
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To: TommyDale

Incredible.


38 posted on 05/14/2007 4:28:01 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Jake The Goose; indylindy; Liz

What is incredible? The fact that we hold a set of core beliefs, which are regularly stated by the owner of the website? Do you really think you could go somewhere like DU and get an open dialog or debate with them by defending President Bush?


39 posted on 05/14/2007 4:30:04 PM PDT by TommyDale (More Americans are killed each day in the U.S. by abortion than were killed on 9/11 !)
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To: TommyDale

Wow - you really are an incredible example of ..........


40 posted on 05/14/2007 4:32:29 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: TommyDale

No more posts to you my adversary.

We have nothing in common - so no sense posting to one another.

I hope I can maintain my discipline and ignore you.

I’m gonna give it the old Citadel effort.


41 posted on 05/14/2007 4:33:54 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Jake The Goose; TommyDale; Liz; Jim Robinson
I respect your civility - but some seem to “have it out for me” - sounds paranoid.

Jake, keep in mind that when it comes to issues of life and death, people DO feel very strongly about it

I think most of us wish we could look each other in the eyes to communicate our passion.

Part of the problem here, is that ever since Rudy entered this campaign, many have been told our beliefs and wishes are no longer important.

You would agree that that type of approach is not very diplomatic.

The reason so many are opposed to Rudy is quite frankly, he is too liberal and a media hog. He is seen as no friend to conservatives and the issues he is being promoted for, are very weak in his corner.

If Rudy is so great, he should be more than a one trick pony and be realistic that his liberal views are a no sale to conservatives.

Honest to God Jake, the only worse Republicans are Bloomberg and Hagel, that ain't saying much.

Understand that those who are fighting for conservatism may some times come on strong. They are just fighting for the huge differences between the excellence of the conservative as opposed to the mainstream frailty of the liberal Democrats!

42 posted on 05/14/2007 4:34:36 PM PDT by dforest (Fighting the new liberal Conservatism. The Left foot in the GOP door.)
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To: indylindy

What a great statement. I thank you for it.

Honest - heart felt - and I won’t argue any of it.

I am just not a social conservative I guess - I’m OK with that.

I don’t need or want to battle through a keyboard - too easy - as you say.

I am a life time Republican (save that Perot thing).

Maybe I should dialog with folks who at least give Rudy some daylight - even if they openly oppose him.

Thanks again for your consideration - you’re a clean thinker.

I respect that - more than you might expect.


43 posted on 05/14/2007 4:39:52 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: TommyDale; indylindy

There’s a BIG i-net world out there-——room for everybody.

People who don’t like the tone here on FR should go elsewhere....where they will feel more comfortable.

Since its inception, FR has been a haven for conservatives.....to get away from the liberal whine.

I don’t see the need to change now just becuse Rooty’s got a yen for the presidency and wants to climb on our backs to do so.

There’s a BIG i-net world out there-—Rooty Tooters should go give agita to someone else.


44 posted on 05/14/2007 4:45:36 PM PDT by Liz (Rudy Giuliani: Guinness World Record for Having The Most Positions on Abortion.)
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To: Liz
Liz,

I want to ask a question.

I accept that FR is a conservative site - ok - I get that.

But help me understand - if everyone in FR is a conservative - why have so many threads on Rudy open for discussion?

- Why have a "Rudy Truth File" (who is for if everyone agrees?)

If everyone is against Rudy inside FR - why allow any threads about the man?

See the point of my question? Why talk about Rudy if everyone is in agreement to be against him?

Am I making sense?

How is FR going to advance it's campaign against Rudy - if it's not open to those who need their minds changed about Rudy?

Am I not a model project for FR members to engage with and convince?

45 posted on 05/14/2007 4:58:13 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Jake The Goose; Liz
See the point of my question? Why talk about Rudy if everyone is in agreement to be against him?

Am I making sense?

You're kidding right?

We have threads on here bashing liberals all the time. The Clintons, Dean, Obama, Kerry, etc. Why should we give a liberal who happens to have an "R" after his name a pass?

46 posted on 05/14/2007 5:01:02 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Ok - you’re making my point.

You’re saying it’s OK to debate Rudy - right?


47 posted on 05/14/2007 5:03:44 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Jake The Goose; Liz; Jim Robinson
But help me understand - if everyone in FR is a conservative - why have so many threads on Rudy open for discussion?

~snip~

How is FR going to advance it's campaign against Rudy - if it's not open to those who need their minds changed about Rudy?

Based on this logic, should FReepers become "open" to changing their minds about Clinton, Obama and Edwards?

48 posted on 05/14/2007 5:05:50 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Jake The Goose; Jim Robinson
You’re saying it’s OK to debate Rudy - right?

We don't debate Hillary, do we?

49 posted on 05/14/2007 5:06:41 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

No but you should be open to changing the minds of people who support those candidates.

I think you have my logic backwards?

I hoped I made sense.

FR has an intellectual base that could broaden it’s ideological base - I think that should be FR’s goal. (if I may be so bold)

Widen the community through debate.

Does that help?


50 posted on 05/14/2007 5:08:41 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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