Posted on 05/16/2007 6:54:51 AM PDT by SirLinksalot
Not one of these assumptions is based on direct observation and experiment.
Scientists "do philosophy" every day, just to do their jobs! They just seem not to realize it....
Indeed, my dearest sister in Christ! Scientific language cannot evoke matters pertaining to the spirit. That's the baileywick of poetry, belles lettres, myth....
Actually ahayes, it is possible for one to distinguish the difference at the very same time it is happening to one. The Presence is unmistakable (and absolutely unforgettable). The problem is, like "qualia," the experience cannot be directly shared with any other person, let alone be validated by the scientific method.
Once again, how do you determine that your religious experience is true and my sister’s religious experience is false? There are multiple contradictory divine revelations out there and they all have their proponents saying their experience is unmistakable and unforgettable.
This means, I presume, that you've had hallucinations that were not divine revelations. Perhaps you could write a book about how to distinguish them. You could also explain how people who have not shared your "qualia," how to distinguish between others who've had divine revelations from those who have had hallucinations.
We have a conundrum here. The Bible says they are deliberately believing lies, and have a nature predisposed to do so. They say they are sincere truth seekers. I take it you accept the testimony of the people over the Book?
Gullibility is a suspension of reality, like watching a television show and forgetting about the cameramen, directors and such. The gullible one forgets it is not "real" and becomes obsessed with the actors, believing that the person is or is like the role he plays.
Of the four revelations of God the Father (Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, Scriptures, Creation - spiritual and physical) --- taking 1/8th of it, the physical Creation, and using that as the measure of, or in lieu of, the whole ... well, er, that is gullible in my book.
In general, yes, but if you like I can oblige and believe you to be deliberately believing lies.
There are other religions that have their own holy Scriptures, and all religions have the universe. There is nothing about your religious experience that you can point to and say is demonstrably unique.
A rhetorical tactic worthy of Big Brother.
Christianity can be remarkably convenient. People do not believe Christianity is true because they want to believe in lies. People who leave Christianity left because they were never true Christians(TM) in the first place.
The proof exists. God lives. But the only way you'll know Him, is He gives it to you to experience that first divine revelation, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Shutting your eyes, holding your hands over your ears, stomping the ground, gritting your teeth and saying to yourself over and over again that Jesus Christ is Lord is not a divine revelation.
Actually I don't recall ever having had a hallucination. I did work a couple of summers as a nursing attendent at a state psychiatric hospital during my college years, and witnessed quite a few hallucinatory experiences by others. Though this hardly makes me an expert of hallucinatory experiences, it was clear how dark, and troubling, and frightening these experiences were for the patients who had them. No God there! No light, no love, no light -- just darkness, horror, and total isolation of the self....
2) Revelation of the infinite to the finite by definition has to run one way. God is "responsible" not only for the revelation itself, but for the "certificate of authenticity" if you will. Reception of these are by definition subjectively received, and not available for public display or scrutiny.
If you read that and don't have REAL problems with it, you either didn't pay attention, or you have biblical faith. The biblical message is simply that God's revelation is self authenticating, AND that the authentication is predicated (in some measure) on a receptive heart. That is not to say that there is not tons of really good supporting evidence from history, logic, observation of men, and other things. It is just saying that when all the clutter is out of the room, those willing to know the truth will "get it."
Jeepers ahayes, didn't you just tell me a few moments ago that you've been a Christian for 20 years? And yet I gather you find Christianity indistinguishable from the other religions? These remarks do not square with each other. FWIW
Of course it is demonstrably unique - the power of God - as I have mentioned before.
But I cannot demonstrate it to your satisfaction, because you have not received - or perhaps, have rejected - the divine revelation that Jesus Christ is Lord.
But to my brothers and sisters in Christ, some of whom I am pinging to this post, it is only obvious! We share in the same Spirit. We are dead and yet alive with Christ in God. We have the mind of Christ. We are different.
It is interesting that Tim Leary’s defense for using “hallucinogenic drugs (LSD) “ was that LSD was not “hallucinogenic” at all, but rather “psychedelic.” His argument was that he was not “seeing things that are not there” but rather experiencing a level of reality that is truly “there” and observable to those under the influence of mind altering drugs and in meditative trances. He was, in fact, challenging the epistemological basis of western culture. His challenge was brilliant, I thought. The response of the Dept of Justice COULD have been that this is a society founded on the prepositional basis that God created a knowable universe, accurately observable without drugs or mind altering techniques, and that “other realms” are in fact “witchcraft” (pharamakeia is the GK word for witchcraft) and thus forbidden. That would have pissed off an entire intelligentsia and launched a wave of ignorant mockery, so they just did what you expect law enforcement to do and locked him up without responding.
Your inability to defend your religion as uniquely true does not improve with repetition!
Of course it is demonstrably unique - the power of God - as I have mentioned before.
Others have experienced the power of a different God. You are no more able to declare their experience as invalid than they are to declare yours invalid.
It boils down to a person's individual faith. Unfortunately this renders a person's choice to declare their religion as leading to ultimate truth pretty meaningless. When there's not much to choose between different religions and all claim to have the Truth(TM) but are unable to show why their truth is better than someone else's, it makes it all seem rather pointless.
My truth is that the Judeo-Christian God does not exist, based upon his character as depicted in the Bible. The only way I have been challenged on this is by being told I am seeking to believe a lie (for what possible reason?), told I am close-minded (no, if I were close-minded I wouldn't have changed my mind!), and that I was never really Christian in the first place (I was).
Yes, before I decided it was a man-made religion.
These remarks do not square with each other.
The "was" was past tense. I haven't believed in God for going on two years.
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