Posted on 05/16/2007 1:25:01 PM PDT by dcwusmc
This is a question which requires a lot of thought and introspection. I realize and understand that many of you are pure knee-jerk, but try. Did the United States and the Federal Government in ANY way contribute to 9/11? Were our policies in the mid-east in any possible way factors which allowed a nutjob like Osama Bin Awful to recruit moonbats who were and are willing to die to kill "infidels," whether in the U.S. or overseas? If you say "no,' I ask for clear evidence to back you up. If you say "yes," then to what DEGREE did our policies contribute to 9/11 and subsequent attacks and attempted attacks? Which policies and why?
This is in no way to excuse what happened, of course. But to many of you here, it seems we were pure as the driven snow and 9/11 happened out of thin air and is totally inexplicable in terms of our own government's past actions and policies. Since the roots of it go back to Clinton and beyond (I would say at least to Jimmy the Peanut, myself, perhaps sooner), this does NOT constitute Bush-bashing, as some others are wont to claim (again, a kneejerk reaction).
It is my considered opinion that MANY of our presidents have thought so highly of themselves that they could consider that THEY, alone, held all the answers to all the factionalism and all the troubles in the Middle East. That they could, by virtue of their own personalities and whatever, overcome CENTURIES of fighting, infighting, atrocities and counter-atrocities by all these Arabs and Persians and even the Jews. (It seems that throughout history, MOST societies have scapegoated the Jews for all their ills.) Add the witches' brew of Mohammedanism to an already-backwards culture and we have semi-literate people with hair-triggers who WANT to believe the worst about outsiders, Jew OR Gentile. Then give them even the least bit of fact to bite on and a nutcase like Osama can wind up with scores of thousands of wanna-bee martyrs. And WE fell into that trap. When we took sides in their fratricidal civil wars. Even when we abandoned an "ally" and then allowed him into our country for medical treatment... one group took things one way, another took things THEIR way and now it seems we have the three main sects of that false religion after us.
Let me clarify now that I am a fervent supporter of Israel and the Jewish People, God's Chosen. However, I am NOT a supporter of GOVERNMENT AID to Israel. Besides the very questionable constitutionality of it, the aid comes with, in my opinion, way too many strings which inhibit Israel from mounting a proper defense of herself when needed. Also it gives American presidents, who are already too full of themselves, an arrogance that THEY ALONE can surmount the hatreds and ill wills that drive the Muslim countries to want to see Israel eradicated and all the Jews of the world exterminated.
The main problem as I see it is that if we refuse to look beyond our own prejudices and biases to the FACTS, we will LOSE our country and our culture. If we choose to blindly follow dangerous or misguided or even evil policies and policy makers, we will wind up with NOTHING of the once-free nation handed off to us by the Founders. I even sometimes do it, then I have to actually THINK for myself. Mostly I come down on the side that says that the people who attacked us and who continue to act like a plague upon the land should be wiped slick from the earth. However, I often strongly question the MEANS for doing that... and I question the WILL of the Bushites to WIN the war on terrorists and their sponsoring countries. I also have trouble with the name of this: The Global War on Terror. Terrorism is a TACTIC used by those who are too cowardly to come up against an opposing force on an even footing. It is also SPONSORED by certain nations who would see us done ill, but who want to keep their own hands "clean." Thus, there can be NO "war on terror," and it is the semantics which get in the way of WINNING, because there is no way to determine when or if you HAVE won. This is why I, along with others (including a presidential candidate who shall remain nameless), am convinced that we should have had a declaration by the Congress that specifically stated that a state of war exists between the United States and al-Qaeda, the Taliban and any nation which supports or harbors them. That way we would have mobilized our national resources, went on an actual WAR-footing and committed our country and our people and our resources to WINNING this thing instead of having it now to be used as a political football by the Left and the chickenhawks on the right.
So, in hindsight, COULD we have taken a different path years back that would NOT NECESSARILY have led to 9/11? Or are we as pure as the driven snow and those nutballs just up and decided to attack us because they could get away with it?
“COULD we have taken a different path years back that would NOT NECESSARILY have led to 9/11?”
Yes we could have converted to Islam, given up our freedom and installed a Sharia Law Government. They will attack no matter what until we convert.
We’re not a pure as the driven snow, not that I care - My Country, Right or Wrong!
But the nutballs are driven more by ambition, than by revenge. Remember some of their “grievances” date back to the loss of Spain... They would have attacked us sooner or later.
The Caliphate and Jihadist Philospohy was founded approximately ONE THOUSAND YEARS!
before our founding. The strategies required to deal with this Historic Movement are NOT facile, (or easy)!
We brought down the Soviet Union by economic means which pointed to "The Shining City on a Hill", (So oft repeated by Reagan!). Modern Socialism had a 200 year history and while the Soviet Union succumbed their counterparts right here in the USofA still espouse this form of government, (Pelosi, Hillary et al!).
As for the Jihadists and present day Dictators in Venezuela and North Korea alittle force is required.
Me too///hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Bin Laden stated that his angst toward us was over the break up of the Caliphate after WWI. Their goal is to restore the Caliphate and America is in their way.
If you are asking if our foreign policy decisions have been crafted based on short term goals without a fleeting thought as to: what the long term unintended consequences might be, what risks the policies pose to our future, what lessons we might learn from history, what the relative weight of reward/risk is in the long term, and what plans we might make to track and mitigate these risks, then the answer is YES YES YES YES YES!! Americans live for the five minute sound byte, thinking is not required.
What did India do to earn their islamderthal attacks? How about Bangladesh or Nepal. Did Indonesia or the Philippines occupy muslim lands? Several hundred years ago, did north Africa and southern Europe occupy muslim lands?
They’re bent on global domination and they constantly tell us that. Sure we can do the Ron Paul thing and curl up in a fetal ball hoping they don’t kick us too hard but we better be willing to die in mass numbers for the blinders we’re supposed to wear. After all, they won’t be kicking us with boots, they’ll be using nukes.
Osama said the reason for the attacks were the proximity of our troops to Mecca.
It’s kinda like asking if you are to blame when someone rear-ends your car. If you had stayed home, the wreck could have been avoided. If you did not own a car, the wreck could have been avoided. Etc
“Islam has been that way for 1400 years”
Islam needs to advance at least to the 18th Century.
Hey. I resemble that remark.
I think radical Islam has been trying to convert the whole world for some time and want run the place as one big Islamic State.
Radical and mainstream muslims hate Westerners, their culture and their Christian/Jewish religions.
“Mohammed went into “trances” and fits (like epileptic fits) when he was given the “word of God” and would shout out what he was told.”
Sounds like demonic possession to me.
You have some very interesting information
IMO, this thread ranks up there with what upset Charles Manson and why did he want to murder Sharon Tate. Or, who upset Adolf Hitler and why did he murder 6 million Jews. The Jews must have asked for it, right? Anyone consider Islamic fanatics to be cold blooded murderers who need NO valid reason to hate you other than they want you dead.
Well, he was trying to establish a dialogue between academia and the military, since he lamented the ivory-tower nature of academics (attributing to the anti-war Vietnam era). So you know what? He might actually bring something valuable to the table. NATO certainly thought so, because they listened to him.
Of course, becasue the US government counts Isreal as an ally, and becasue the US government makes sure that Israel has plenty of money to buy weapons, and becasue the US would probably engage in war against a country that committed an act of war against Israel, and Becasue most of the islamic countries are the sworn enemy of Israel. Yeah I'd say that our Government's direct efforts to make Israel a nuclear power contributed to the other countries in the region acting the way they do. The US government also spent a lot of money and military capital over the past 40 years meddling in ME countries and their governments. Remember the policy of installing puppet governors like the Shaw of Iran? That sure worked out well. Maybe becasue these people have been killing each other in awful ways for a thousand years..............and now they're pissed at US.
I understand your answer, but they ARE blowing up thousands of their own ALL AROUND THE WORLD aren’t they? Somalia, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Thialand,........
Then of course, we had to remind him in April 2003 and the radical Muzzies and the Taliban didn't like that neither.
But it COULD have been called off had that perception changed after 2000. Why wasn’t it?
What did Bush do to change anyone's perception?
Was your professor named Ward Churchill?
Islam needs to go away. It’s incapable of advancement because its fundamental precept rejects reason, and its practice is authoritarian, cultic and - well, once again - anti-reason.
The Judeo Christian God is the exact opposite, and that is why we have advanced and they have not. And never can.
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