Posted on 05/17/2007 8:06:33 AM PDT by mjp
Multiple Shooters Possible, Study Says
In a collision of 21st-century science and decades-old conspiracy theories, a research team that includes a former top FBI scientist is challenging the bullet analysis used by the government to conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald alone shot the two bullets that struck and killed President John F. Kennedy in 1963. The "evidence used to rule out a second assassin is fundamentally flawed," concludes a new article in the Annals of Applied Statistics written by former FBI lab metallurgist William A. Tobin and Texas A&M University researchers Cliff Spiegelman and William D. James.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Yep, great response.
I read “Case Closed” on the plane during a recent trip to Europe. I had been kind of an agnostic about the conspiracy theories — thought there might be something there — but Posner changed my mind. I would say I’m a fairly convinced skeptic now.
Test all you want. The conspiracy nuts won’t believe the evidence. Why would they? They don’t believe anything now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3-lZNR_yAc
Oh, it’s a fine piece of fiction Gripping, intense fiction. If it were set in another country or on another planet, I’d love it. but it makes claims to fact that are completely absent any basis in fact. Jim Garrison was a grade-A nutbar.
Interesting trivia aside: Shortly after the tial of Clay Shaw, Jim Garrison lost his bid for re-election. His successor as district attorney of Orleans Parish was Harry Connick. DA Connick sent his son to a local genus named Ellis Marsalis for piano lessons, and after the lessons, Harry Connick, Jr. played — played music, played kids’ games what not — with Wytnton, Branford, and Delfayo Marsalis.
The rest, as they say, is history.
A lot of history is rendered as fiction and becomes art — Le Morte d’Arthur and Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar, for instance.
The problem I have with JFK is that not only is it false history, it’s also destructive history.
Not here:
Several things keep me from accepting either the official story or the various alternates - it just don't feel right.
(a) I listened/watched the reports in real time.
(b) I had the opportunity to listen to tapes of the radio/TV coverage 15 or so years later.
(c) I've handled and fired Carcano carbines a few, very disappointing, times.
(d) I've worked with the FBI and have a serious attitude regarding their veracity.
(e) Oswald + Carcano + range and time to fire + moving target + grassy knoll + Tipitt + Ruby + total change in the dem party following 1963 + everything happening in 1963 + sealed records + lost records + anything Kennedy + a healthy distrust of what's commonly accepted about most anything...
No, I'm still open for a better answer.
There is no frontal shot. All shots came from the rear. The President was hit by two bullets. One bullet (the second one Oswald fired) went through the President’s throat and then into Governor Connally’s back (this is the so called pristine bullet). The second bullet to hit the President struck him in the back of the head and exited from the front right hand side of his skull. The grisly scene that is played out on the Zapruder film is the exit wound caused by the bullet and its effect on fluid and soft tissue as it pushes out. (Shoot a plastic milk jug full of water. Small hole for the entrance, big hole for the exit.)
Thick skull? He was a Democrat after all.
The first bullet missed and hit a curb. The bullet fragments or concrete hit a man named James Tague who was standing near the underpass. That bullet or fragments were never found.
The second bullet traveled 2000 fps to hit the president 5 1/2inches [14 Centimeters]below the Mastoid Process[there’s a picture of the hole and the ruler The bullet wound also exhibited a Halo Effect which is a ring around a typical high speed bullet entrance wound], it hit no bones and exited out his neck[1772 to 1,779 feet per second] clipping his tie[photos of the tie]. It traveled 28 inches away[trajectory report]to hit Connelly near the right armpit[Doctor’s report] clipping his rib[Doctor’s report]and keyholed out his chest
leaving a 2 inch by 1/2 inch wound [Doctor’s report]. Connelly’s label moves outward. [Zapruder film] At this point it had only hit one bone and is now flying sideways when it hit the wrist [3/4 inch wound] and buries itself in a shallow wound[very little soft tissue damage,[Doctor’s report] in the thigh leaving an amount of lead in the thigh. The amount of lead in the wrist and the bullet add up to the original weight of 161 grains which is the same amount of the bullets from the Western Ammunition Company. Connelly had a broken rib bone and wrist bone. {Doctor’s report]. Cloth from his clothing was found in his wrist.
The third bullet hit Kennedy in the back of the head toward the right side forcing his head to move forward by approximately two inches. The bullet broke into two pieces at the bullet’s cannelure. One piece cracked the inside of the windshield near the mirror. The second fragment hit the chrome strip at the top of the windshield. There are photographs in evidence of the crack and the dent. The two pieces were found at the front of the limousine, one on the floorboard and the other on the seat. The Zapruder film shows Kennedy’s head moving approximately two to three inches forward at the moment of impact. The photographs of Kennedy’s head and skull show a small entrance hole and a large exit hole. Cratering of the hole at the back of the skull is typical of entrance holes. [Autopsy Report]
If this is not the way it happened, then what happened to the other bullets or fragments that did this damage?
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Apart from the second bullet apparently traveling upward about three inches inside a soft target significantly below the shooter...I didn't comment on how many hits were made or how much the residue weighed in at.
(I do, however, suggest that the available evidence may well have been censored, suppressed, or misrepresented under any of a number of motives.)
I do vividly remember that no one on the scene considered the book repository as a source. I do know the Carcano to be junk - I would concede that a military round might not mushroom or fragment in the same manner as a sporting round - but not that surplus ammo and a mail order carbine would allow for two out of three hits on the same garage door at any range in the time available.
(I know 'expert riflemen' proved it could be done, according to the commission - unfortunately there is no indication that Oswald was that good or that he'd practiced shooting downward, at a moving target, at a range he could only estimate.)
For these and a number of other reasons, not least the script-like events that followed, I simply doubt the lone gunman, acting alone, Tippitt/Ruby/lost photos, restricted access to the body, media attention on Mrs JFK and transition, misdirection, and classified evidence parts of the tale.
I don’t know where you decided to invent some of your information. The second bullet didn’t travel upward. The reports and photographs show the bullet hit Kennedy’s back 14 centimeters from the Mastoid Process and exited out where it hit the left knot on his tie. That’s a fact. I would rather call someone trying to sell a book on dubious information a lier than all the doctors, nurses, the coroner and the photographers who were there examining the body.
You have to be dreaming if you describe a Carcano as junk. You obviously have never shot a military rifle before. It’s also obvious you have never shot a World War Two rifle back in the 1960’s when they were only at most twenty years old. Bolt Action rifles are the most accurate weapons made. They are the basis of most all sniper rifles. If you can’t figure out how a rifle of any kind can’t hit a head and shoulders target at less than 100 yards, you have never shot a gun before. And that’s exactly what this incident is. It’s a shooting incident. I would believe any Marine who has qualified on a 600 yard course can hit an easy and simple target where the longest shot was within pistol range.
I read a comment from one of the investigators on the Kennedy assassination. He mentioned ALL of the frauds, lies, photo fakes, dubious urban legends and out and out lies came from the conspiracy theorists. From the photo shopped picture of Oswald holding the rifle to “stories” of assassins hiding in the trees. They all came from the conspiracy nuts.
Doncha recall? That was, after all, The Magic Bullet Theory!...LOL...Authored by Ol’ Arlen hisself....
Is that not the exact reason FMJ’s are used in combat?? That they do not explode or disintegrate like soft points or hollow points which are illegal to kill people with (??) in war?
Well, one thing’s for sure. Kennedy is still dead.
The so-called pristine bullet which wasn’t is dented on the nose and flattened. Since it was an early smokeless design, the jacketing material is open on the bottom of the bullet. The damage would be described as toothpaste flowing out of a flattened tube.
Pristine in this case is described as a bullet that stays true in flight along it’s axis. The second bullet keyholed out of Connelly’s chest leaving an elongated wound so it wasn’t “Pristine”.
The third bullet hit Kennedy at full force and it broke at the cannelure. It also left a spray of lead inside the brain. One fragment hit and dented the upper inside windshield chrome and the other cracked the inside of the windshield. One part was found on the floor forward of the driver seat and the other found on the driver seat.
The second bullet left a halo around the entrance wound on Kennedy’s back which is common of high speed bullet wounds. The third left a cratered bullet wound on the back of Kennedy’s skull which is common for an entrance wound.
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No one ever claimed there was just the one bullet fired in total, so your post is nonsense.
In addition, this has been simulated and the one bullet that passed through more than person (which people like you like to use to claim the conclusion was that only one bullet was fired, period, which is false), would indeed have taken the path it did from where it entered Kennedy.
But go on believing your little conspiracy.
Indeed. It amazes me how people will just comment without knowing at all what they are talking about because they want to believe some conspiracy.
The facts of the bullets and how they travelled and what condition they were in alone would neither prove nor disprove the number of shooters, so I'm not sure why it is so relevant to them.
Actually the number, trajectory and ballistic evidence would lead to where the shooter[s] was/were and the number.
In this case it’s three shots and the trajectory leads back to the sixth floor. There is no evidence to show otherwise.
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