New program amnesty in everything but name

The Bakersfield Californian ^ | May 18, 2007 | Marylee Shrider

[pissant]

Lets encourage both to commit suicide and spare the nation their idiocy.

[TBP]

Borders, language, culture.

[F.J. Mitchell]

You will only win that bet if the Federal government manages to get those 20 million illegals amnestyrized and their 25 family members each brought to the USA and all registered to vote before the next general election.

Considering the caliber and credibility, or the lack thereof among too many of those in Washington that we presently depend upon to protect our interests, I will not bet against you.

[JLS]

What this legislation is is a legislated plea bargain. The penalty for prior breaking of US law is a $5,000 fine. In terms of the US criminal justice system that is a pretty hefty fine for a first offense. [I am not sure if the offense is a felony or not.]

Now you might respond that the person copping the plea will not have a criminal record. Since the US has tons of diversion programs where first offenders who commit serious misdemeanors end up without a criminal record, I don’t see such a big difference.

[supercat]

Now you might respond that the person copping the plea will not have a criminal record. Since the US has tons of diversion programs where first offenders who commit serious misdemeanors end up without a criminal record, I don’t see such a big difference.

Should people who get caught embezzling be allowed to buy for $5,000 plenary indulgences which would permit them to continue embezzling with no further penalty?

What the government's peddling isn't actually amnesty, but if anything indulgences are far worse.

[JLS]

Well the problem with your analogy is that illegals are not embezzling. You seem to think their is a finite pool of money for wages in a country. That is not true.

[freekitty]

It’s too bad; they won’t deport them all because it can be done and they know it.

[RodgerD]

Don’t worry. The America that offends you so much is being dismantled.

[GATOR NAVY]

Almost everything printable I can think of is in the keywords.

[dirtboy]

These arguments are so worn out.

Your B.S. smells worse the longer you toss it around. Just look at the number of illegals now versus when Reagan signed amnesty.

[dirtboy]

I any case try to post a more educated argument.

With your point of view, I'm sure you could borrow one from Ted Kennedy and his Harvard education.

[James W. Fannin]

Borders, language, culture.

Bears repeating. And culture, including rule of law.

[supercat]

Well the problem with your analogy is that illegals are not embezzling. You seem to think their is a finite pool of money for wages in a country. That is not true.

My point is that their illegal presence here represents an ongoing crime, rather than a one-time event. There is no reason why their crimes should be rewarded with more rights than are received by people who file paperwork to come here legally.

Besides, some hospital emergency rooms and other facilities might very rightly regard the illegals as stealing funds from citizens and legal residents.

[JLS]

My point is that their illegal presence here represents an ongoing crime, rather than a one-time event. There is no reason why their crimes should be rewarded with more rights than are received by people who file paperwork to come here legally.

Just like when a city say come in and pay your tickets and we will waive late fees, it was an on going act of illegality. There are lots of such plans in the US. So there is still nothing new no matter how you try to spin it. And yes those who get their late fees waived by paying up late are disadvantaged compared those who pay their tickets on time.

Besides, some hospital emergency rooms and other facilities might very rightly regard the illegals as stealing funds from citizens and legal residents.

Of course not, you could let them die or remain sick or etc. Don't blame someone else if you or really we the American public are not willing to let illegals die rather than treat them in our emergency rooms. THAT IS OUR CHOICE.

[supercat]

Just like when a city say come in and pay your tickets and we will waive late fees, it was an on going act of illegality.

Once a ticket is paid, what act of illegality is ongoing?

This "not-amnesty" program would be equivalent to telling people who have received parking tickets and not paid them that if they pay the tickets they will be allowed to park in the no-parking zones with impunity.

Of course not, you could let them die or remain sick or etc. Don't blame someone else if you or really we the American public are not willing to let illegals die rather than treat them in our emergency rooms. THAT IS OUR CHOICE.

The choice of the vast majority of Americans is to not have them get sick in this country by not having them enter this country in the first place.

[JLS]

Once a ticket is paid, what act of illegality is ongoing?

Failure to appear at court which was scrubbed as an illegality is the ONGOING illegality that is removed just as in this case. Just as a former ilegal is declared now legal, the scofflaw who failed to come to court or pay their fines has that continuing illegal failure to appear scrubbed.

The choice of the vast majority of Americans is to not have them get sick in this country by not having them enter this country in the first place.

That remains to be seen. It appears to me that most Americans want to treat people here legally or illegally who have medical emergencies.

As for what majorities want, it seems to me the results of the last election on that issue was mixed. I seem to recall some very secure borders types lost congressional elections despite congress blocking comprehensive reform.

Personally I want secure borders so we don't have terrorist attacks across our borders. I want companies to be able to secure employees without having to bid bums off welfare. I want English perserved as the American language. I want the US's population not to age so much that we are vulnerable to Islamic takeover.

The way I see it, the borders are not secure now. How can we get it secured without driving agriculture concerns out of business and driving up consumer prices? Can this bill possible accomplish some of this? I am not sure, it looks like it could some. Remember the status quo is the situation as it is now, little enforcement and no interior enforcement.

Certainly their is a huge worry after Simpson-Mazzoli the enforcement will not come or the penalties will be wavied. BUT GUESS WHAT YOU HAVE ELECT LIKE MINDED PEOPLE ELECTION AFTER ELECTION AND HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE. If the enforcement does not come to pass despite the triggers in the bill and the penalties on past illegal behavior are waived, then that is because the American people did not care enough to keep electing representatives to make this a priority.