Posted on 05/24/2007 6:03:30 AM PDT by Rebeleye
...he was stunned to see two large Confederate flags flying from trucks...emblazoned with the words "The South Shall Rise Again." I'm stunned, too, that people still think it is cool to fly this flag. Our society should bury these flags -- not flaunt them...because the Confederate flag symbolizes racial tyranny to so many... ...This flag doesn't belong on city streets, in videos or in the middle of civil discussion. It belongs in our past -- in museums and in history books -- along with the ideas it represents.
(Excerpt) Read more at kansas.com ...
From what I've read they didn't often bother with courts in the Confederacy. A bullet in the back or a trip (often one way) without trial to the reb gulag in Tuscaloosa was the frequent fate of those Unionists whose property caught the greedy eyes of the local authorities.
For the victims, I'm sure it was scant comfort to know that their abuse was at the hand of fellow southerners undertaken in the name of states' rights.
“From what I’ve read they didn’t often bother with courts in the Confederacy. A bullet in the back or a trip (often one way) without trial to the reb gulag in Tuscaloosa was the frequent fate of those Unionists whose property caught the greedy eyes of the local authorities.”
Unfortunately, that was kind of like the Sons of Liberty of old.
How is the Moon these days? LOL
He could try.
” But New York was co-owner. “
It helped pay for the land?
“That’s not the question. What rule of law transferred Sumter from its legal owner to the South Carolina without compensation? If you can’t come up with one just say so.”
The rule of “it’s in my territory now”.
“No, all the other forts were seized without permission or the agreement of their rightful owner, the government of the United States. They were stolen.”
Their rightful owner was the States, as THEY were the rightful owner of the government. The government was considered in material breach of the contract.
“You’re trying to be condescending again, aren’t you?”
Just responding in kind.
“ctually it was the correct answer. Chief Justice Chase, who would have been one of the two judges trying Davis, made it clear that he would not vote to convict because the passage of the 14th Amendment stripped Davis from holding any office or any position of trust in the government.”
No, that’s not the right answer. The reason given by Chase does not mean the 14th pardoned Davis of a charge of treason. If secession was treason, why no trial? Why hold him at Fort Liberty in solitary and then just let him go?
“Having been punished for his role in leading the rebellion by Section 3 of the amendment, Chase was of the opinion that further trial and punishment would be a violation of Davis’s 5th Amendment right against double jeopardy.”
They’d already violated his rights by holding him without trial or even indictment for two years. Double jeopardy only applies if he had first been tried for the crime.
What actually happened is the government was wary of actually addressing the legality of secession. This provided an out. The one, later, case that actually addressed it (White, as I recall) just declared it “illegal” with no basis in law.
“But I’ll bite, laddie. What’s your version?”
The above, sonny.
“How is the Moon these days? LOL”
Quite nice view, now, in my telescope.
New York is signifantly less “free” than most Southern states.
Enjoy.
You are from New York, are you not?
“Which liberal & commie free state do you reside?”
One with a Senator actively working to stop this amnesty bill.
So which Southern 'free state' are you in?
"Enjoy."
I do - what a view! :)
When was the last time you were in New York?
Careful, foreign sounding guy......we probably will enslave you, too. Then you’ll know about ‘lost causes’.
Even now, we southerners are planning, plotting against all Yankee’s and foreign sounding peoples.
Just wait. The south WILL rise again.....
Alabama, at the moment.
“When was the last time you were in New York?”
About 10 years ago. Found it unremarkable, but restrictive.
You should make that your tag line.
Slavery was based entirely on the physical ability of one group to force another to do what they wanted. A fluke change here or their in history, and you would have been the slave of some African planter.
The United States is based on the premise of God-given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The fact that it took 'fourscore and ten' to legally apply that principle to all people, is a function of politics, not premise.
Back to the subject of the thread --- The South Shall Rise Again. --- Is property rights in form of other humans that what you look for in that rising?
Thank God you are just a damn nut case and not representative of the South.
Where were you, Wall Street at midnight?
There are approximately 16,700 restaurants in Manhattan alone, a different one to eat in every day for 46 years. Then the scores of museums, theaters, clubs, more then any other city in the world.
What was restrictive, traffic jams? If so I agree.
And you would support him and believe him to be in the right?
It helped pay for the land?
In a way, yes. The site deeded to the federal government by South Carolina was under water. Sumter is actually build on landfill, granite hauled down from New England. New York taxes helped pay for that.
The rule of “it’s in my territory now”.
AKA "Stick 'em up. This is a robbery?"
Their rightful owner was the States, as THEY were the rightful owner of the government.
You're getting sillier by the moment. Constitutionally only Congress can dispose of federal property, and only the federal government can own it. There is no joint ownership so once they deeded the property to the government the state was no longer the rightful owner. They had no claims to it at all.
The government was considered in material breach of the contract.
How so?
Just responding in kind.
No, you've got your back against the wall and you're reverting to type. Whenever any of you Southron types realize they're being made fool of they resort to calling their opponent a liberal or, in your case, become condescending.
No, that’s not the right answer. The reason given by Chase does not mean the 14th pardoned Davis of a charge of treason.
No, passage of the 14th Amendment didn't mean Davis didn't commit treason. It meant that he couldn't be tried and punished for it since the 14th Amendment had, in effect, already punished him.
If secession was treason, why no trial?
There were proceedural delays but the trial was planned.
Why hold him at Fort Liberty in solitary and then just let him go.
In the first place he was held in Fortress Monroe. In the second place he was out on bail for much of the time. In the third place the ratification of the 14th Amendment prevented it.
They’d already violated his rights by holding him without trial or even indictment for two years. Double jeopardy only applies if he had first been tried for the crime.
Davis was indicted for treason in May 1866. And the 5th Amendment says that "nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb..." It's usually used to prevent trial twice for the same crime, but the Southern leadership had been punished for their actions by the ratification of the 14th Amendment. Regardless of the source of the punishment, the Constitution prevents being punished twice for the same crime. Or so said Chief Justice Chase. I disagree with him BTW and think that Davis should have been tried. But I don't have a say in the matter.
What actually happened is the government was wary of actually addressing the legality of secession. This provided an out. The one, later, case that actually addressed it (White, as I recall) just declared it “illegal” with no basis in law.
Just because you disagree with the ruling doesn't mean it had 'no basis in law'. But hey, no basis in law hasn't stopped you from insisting Sumter belonged to South Carolina so I guess it's to be expected. Regardless, you might want to read the Texas v White decision and read Chief Justice Chase's decision. It's really rather interesting.
That is nothing but Brit anti-American propaganda. (The Brits used to be the best at that.)
The Founders did not call themselves "secessionists". They never for a moment pretended that what they did was legal under British law.
They proudly called themselves Revolutionaries, and they were fully prepared to pay the legal price of Revolution.
They played no legalistic games to obscure their treason from the Crown.
It sounds as though you have been extremely isolated, living in your own little world, and don't get out much.
"Even now, we southerners are planning, plotting against all Yankee’s and foreign sounding peoples. Just wait. The south WILL rise again..
What are you planning & plotting this week?
Can you inform everyone about the thing which WILL rise again
“It sounds as though you have been extremely isolated, living in your own little world, and don’t get out much”
I’ll have you know I’ve been all around my county. In fact, my still is on one mountaintop, and I live clear yonder over on that other mountaintop.
“What are you planning & plotting this week?”
I am planning on opening “south of the border” tourist traps within which I will remove the money from your Yankee wallets. This, of course, will finance the rebel alliance.
“Can you inform everyone about the thing which WILL rise again”
I’ve had no complaints from my livestock.
Do you speak like that in public? Have you considered speech therapy?
"I am planning on opening “south of the border” tourist traps within which I will remove the money from your Yankee wallets. This, of course, will finance the rebel alliance.
Okay, and what is act #2?
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
“Do you speak like that in public? Have you considered speech therapy?”
I can’t help it if you can’t talk good.
“Okay, and what is act #2?”
You surrender.
My respect for southern soldiers is the same as it is for northern soldiers. The grandfathers of both sides fought the revolutionary war side by side and their grandsons and great grandsons have fought side by side in every war since.
They’re Americans, period.
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