Posted on 05/24/2007 6:03:30 AM PDT by Rebeleye
True. Slavery was based on the absolute right to property guaranteed to the People by the Constitution. Where the People went, so did their rights.
Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in the various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government, which impartially secures to every man, whatever is his own.
James Madison's Essay on Property (1792)
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Scott said among other things, 1. The Northwest Ordnance was unconstitutional (complete historical nonsense)
Was it? Really? Could you please quote the Article and section of the Constitution that gives the federal government authority over the issue of slavery?
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2. that individual state's personal liberty laws were trumped by the Constitution's provision requiring return of runaways
Also true. One cannot have the legal ability to have property returned unless one had a right to that property to begin with.
(You DO realize the sign of an educated mind is the ability to understand a concept like slavery without actually agreeing with the owning of slaves, don't you?)
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3. That blacks (free or slave) were not people as defined in the Constitution and had no rights in any court in the land (Federal or State).
Also true. The Founders created our country with a social fabric much like that of the ancient Romans. There were 'civil' persons, or citizens of the several states, denizens, or people from other counties who had come here to live (i.e. today's 'illegals') and then slaves.
Before the 14th Amendment, it was the STATES who decided whether of not a denizen deserved to become a civil citizen.
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But reading Scott, there is nothing that would have prevented a slave owner from taking his slaves into a free state and setting up shop there.
Also true for reasons already expressed in #2
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As Lincoln said in the House Divided speech, we were destined to become all one thing, or all to other.
Since the combined tax rate (consisting of federal taxes, state taxes, local taxes, vehicle taxes, property taxes, etc., etc., etc.) is over 50%, I'd say we wound up with 'the other'.
Congratulations.
Yes. Someone with a better grasp of both history and the English language.
“With what pretense of fairness, is is said, can you Americans object to the secession of the Southern States when your nation was founded on secession from the British Empire?” - Cornhill Magazine, “The Dissolution of the Union,” 1861.
“And don’t call me son, I’m not your son.”
This is why I think you have trouble with American English. In this context, I was being condescending.
That’s not all they thought on the subject. Otherwise, why allow Confederate agents to operate in their country?
They didn’t formally recognize over slavery, but to say they didn’t help or sympathize to an extent is not accurate.
“a federal fort that did not belong to South Carolina “
Call it “preemptive war”, if you will.
“Blaming it all on South Carolina because the firing started there makes no more sense than blaming it all on Lincoln because he insisted on retaining ownership of federal property.”
Who owns Federal Property?
“Which flag are we talking about being “co-opted”?”
Check your attributions.
Oh my, makes me sooo hungry. I cook all that good stuff, too. I put okra in everything from soups to roasts to rice and often fry it. Don’t forget chicken & dumplins’, pork neckbones and rice, ham hocks and fresh green beans, sawmill gravy and cheese grits.
What do you think those lyrics mean? They are a “hymn” stating that the Army of the Potomac was the Army of God and was going to stomp out the South. That’s EXACTLY what it means.
“Read Lincoln’s Second Inaugural and then ask yourself what the grapes of wrath is all about.”
He doesn’t address the hymn or those who supported the idea - popular in some avenues of the North - to so punish the South that it would amount to genocide. Of course, Lincoln didn’t agree with that, but that doesn’t change the attitude in others.
“He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored”
Killing the enemy is justified, as it’s God’s punishment.
“I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps”
God's judgement has been passed on the enemy.
“As ye deal with My contempters, so with you My grace shall deal”
If you kill the enemy, you serve God and go to heaven.
“I have read the fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel”
Not exactly Christian, here, either.
Certainly, no Christian hymn. Of course, it was written by the wife of a John Brown supporter in on the Harpers Ferry Raid.
We can debate the lyrics, but do so actually reading them in their proper context of 1861 and without the childishness. Words do mean things. Just like these words.
Many songs lose their proper context. “This Land is Your Land” was written by a Communist, yet some consider it “American”.
It’s a bit difficult to start a government in a war.
Oh, and the “well, your guy did it to” is not a defense.
“War of Northern Aggression”
Commonly called the “Civil War”, although it wasn’t one.
Ok,if you want to be technical about it,yes,Brown WAS a serial killer.
Which does not make him any MORE unworthy of scorn than many of the bandits and scoundrels of that pre-War period.
I notice you left out the line, “As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.”
Fair enough. Please be advised that I meant no offense, in fact I worded my post the way I did because I was far from certain that you were being serious.
You appear to have a problem with linear thought. I did not say it would be alright. I said that it would show the lost causers to be purveying horse hockey.
“You appear to have a problem with linear thought. I did not say it would be alright. I said that it would show the lost causers to be purveying horse hockey.”
The eventual conduct of the Davis government in a war that started as soon as the governmnet was founded isn’t necessarily related to all the reasons it was fought in the first place.
The conduct of the Continental Congress wasn’t perfect either.
Does that erase the rest of the “kill for God” meme?
Oh, and while Howe was a radical abolitionist, most Northerners - including Lincoln himself - were not.
Absolutely correct.
It's always the same boring, insignificant assortment of crazed, neo-confederate malcontents, still glued to their demented pipe dream of savagely ripping out a geographical section of the United States, and dragging it back to the defeated era of segregation & raging blind hate for all those not actively promoting their revisionist hallucinations.
You are having trouble with linear thought again. Where did I say that the Davis government micromanaged because of the reasons they seceded? Show me the post.
You’re having trouble hiding your true agenda and attitudes to both a large segment of the Republican Party and the country.
“Where did I say that the Davis government micromanaged because of the reasons they seceded? Show me the post.”
You’re showing your difficulty with English. Is it a 2nd language?
You claim the Davis government was tyrannical in action, so the South couldn’t have seceded for “freedom”. This is not logical.
“........ plenty of Blue Counties in the South”.
The overwhelming number of minorities in those Countie are what makes them Blue. Blacks in most of the South and Blacks and Hispanics in Texas and Florida. (IIRC the majority of Hispanics in Florida are and have been for awhile, non Cuban).
It only ever comes up in response to insults from ignorant and sanctimonious fools originating in socialist hellholes like New York.
My ancestors fought in the Revolution. Their grandchildren also fought in both sides of the Civil War. None of them owned slaves at any time (mostly German immigrants). They fought for their States and their homes.
I’ll be damned if I’m going to let their memory be insulted by Johnny-come-latelies like you.
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