Posted on 05/27/2007 7:24:50 PM PDT by radar101
This is BULL!
The Code of engagement should not even exist!
There are no innocent civilians in either Afghanistan, nor Iraq. Every mother-loving person there for two cents would gladly kill one of our soldiers.
These rules that our military now must use should never have been enforced.
War is about breaking things and killing people.
Torture to extract information, in my opinion, should be encouraged if it saves one American Soldiers life.
We did not win two World Wars by asking our enemies, “mother may I?”
grrrrrr.
The Marines need a LEADER, not a PC General-wanna-be.
I believe General Conway is on the right track. However, let's not scare these young Marines who are about to engage in combat for the first time, to not fire back, when fired upon. Some I have talked to have been following the K/3/1 & K/3/5 incidents and appear to have become gun shy for fear of the consequences that await them if they make the wrong decision.
My answer to them was Marines,at all levels, make, have made and will continue to make wrong decisions, but that's war. Marines who hesitate will end up in a body bag and cause many of their brother Marines to end up there also. We were always trained to "make a decision" and "immediate obedience to orders", provided it is not an unlawful order.
Jim, forget ethics, just tell the guys to shoot to kill, win the war, and come on home. Stop acting like a damn politician. Their are Marines for heavens sake, not girl scouts.
You notice the post above this one? Man this is panzy training.Thank God there were no jag lawyers on the beaches in the pacific during WW2.Marines now need sensitivity training going into battle.Im gonna go throw up in a bucket now.
Much of the world may be becoming more civilized, though I doubt it. However, the Jihadies are stuck in the 7th century, and training our Marines to be concerned with anything other than killing the enemy and defending themselves, is to guarantee a bunch more dead Marines. After those two prerequisites are taken care of, then and only then can they concern themselves with other considerations.
Yeah, a one-finger wave.
This "battlefield ethics" crap makes me throw up in my mouth a little. If one Marine dies because he hesitated just long enough to wonder if he was being ethical, or to review his thirteen rules of engagement, scum like Petraeus, Mattis and Conway should hang.
Semper fidelis,
LH
The supporters of the current limited war policy are as blind as Baghdad Bob was. Also, these generals are likely gearing up for a Democratic administration in two years, and want to sound as PC as possible to hold onto their careers.
It’s a pity our fighting men and women are being led by such fools as these.
That is a frightening post. (I’m nervous enough as it is.) Where on earth did the Marine Corps come up with these sh!tbird officers (Petraeus, Mattis, and Conway) who are apparently little more than PC political hacks?
Or is this all just a big turd rolling downhill from the White House, the result of Bush’s obscene incompetence as demonstrated by his putting ACLU lawyers in charge of the war effort?
I just want to throw up.
Our nation has signed its own death warrant.
Well said. Right on.
But it's even worse than that - - the PC hacks in charge of the Marines are wringing their hands that enlisted Marines aren't ratting out their brothers-in-arms!
When he issued the new directives on ethics training, Conway did not cite those cases but did make reference to a survey released two weeks ago that found 40 percent of more than 400 Marines questioned would not report a fellow Marine for killing or wounding an innocent civilian.
I don't know what sickens me more - - that only 40% of Marines understand the meaning of "semper fidelis" or that Conway and his ilk are disappointed that 40% DO understand the meaning.
This ain’t your Daddy’s Marine Corps, is it?
Then whom are we spending thousands of lives and billions of dollars to liberate and bring democracy to? What the F are we doing there?
Think twice before you pull that trigger can get you killed. This is bullcrap that our men on the battlefield don’t need. We need to fight more wars without the rules. A little more rubble, a lot less trouble. Faluja should have been B-52’d.
Innocence or guilt are established in a court of law—not in a fire zone where the enemy engages human shields and dress in Burkhas and have female suicide bombers and use children to attack sentries.
Where were these paragons of morality when we destroyed Cologne, Dresden, Tokyo, Hirshima, Nagasaki, and Berlin?
Answer—they weren’t even born yet... What arrogance.
>>values and ethics panel<<
Feminism in the military and the fear of the MSM. Get rid of both and our troops can take off the shackles and get this job done right.
“This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...
My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We
are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America’s and there is no enemy, but peace!”
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Well Jarheads, looks like we need to add a new enemy: “sensitivity training” by a politically apologetic CMC.
Semper Fi
I posted this to see what the reaction would be.
First, the troops in Iraq are being held to a standard stricter than the law enforcement here in the States. I Know because I was one for thirty years. Times you can shoot -HERE in the US:
1. When the attacker is shooting at you—regardless of who is in the line of fire.
2. To stop a fleeing Violent Felon (A guy who has just shot at me, then ditched his weapon qualifies) —NOTE item #1 about the BOOK below.
IN Sgt. Major BRAD KASAL’S BOOK “My Men are my heroes”, he talks about
1. Jihadi’s in Fallujah stored weapons in many different locations. This way, they could shoot at the Marines, lay THAT weapon down, then run to another defensive location BECAUSE—The Maribnes were told that they could not shoot at an “Un-armed Civilian”.
2. Kasal took a Senior JAG Officer into Fallujah to SHOW HIM, that they could never hope to take Fallujah UNDER THE “RULES OF ENGAGEMENT”
3. After Kasal lost one man killed, and himself and two other nearly killed, the Rules that said you had to enter and investigate was altered: Explode—then enter.
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