Posted on 06/10/2007 6:44:05 AM PDT by indcons
President Bush, getting a hero's welcome as the first American president to visit this Balkan nation, said Sunday that there cannot be endless dialogue about achieving independence for neighboring Kosovo.
"Sooner rather than later you've got to say `Enough's enough. Kosovo's independent,'" Bush said during a news conference with the prime minister of this tiny, impoverished country.
Bush's press for statehood was aimed at Russia and others that object to Kosovo's independence. Standing alongside Prime Minister Sali Berisha, Bush said any extension of talks on Kosovo must have "certain independence" as the goal.
In response to Albania's push for NATO membership, Bush said additional political and military reforms were needed before that could be considered something the country's leaders said they understood.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
What do you think? Comments are requested.
Here's what I think -- it SUCKS. It also SUCKED when Clinton first got us involved in his little excellent adventure in the Balkans.
And heres why is sucks: Fast forward 20 years and you'll see the U.N., backed by China, and/or Russia 'demanding' a separate 'free& nation' for the 'ethnic Mexicans' in the US Southwest. And thanks to precedent like this and convoluted international treaties, we'll be 'obliged' to do it.
Of course US Citizens just might protest a tad and what will follow will make the so-called 'ethnic cleaning' in the Balkans look like a Camp Fire Girl bake sale.
Ok...thanks. Your comment about setting a precedent is very valid. I don’t know why the West is so desperate to create Muslim states in Europe. Kinda provides a template for Muslim extremists everywhere to demand their own country.
It's almost a sickness the way we bend over backwards and try to make muslims and everyone else love us...it's always bites us in the rear and this will be no different.
Another muslim state that hates us but loves to spend and siphon off our foreign aid.
Or demand part, or all, of someone else's country. i.e France, England etc.- tom
When we going to bring our troops home from Kosovo? Wasn’t it supposed to be Christmas 1997?? Where is Turda on that??
Pray for W and Our Troops
Not to mention the fact that Bush is pushing the EU to accept Turkey.
Will we ever learn?
Kosovo is a de facto muslim country. Therefore its residents need the possibility to choose a gouvernment that is suitable to their needs. This is what we all call freedom. President Bush is right to urge independence for Kosovo. I also understand that the Kosovarians do not want to live under Serbian control. We all know what the Serbians done to their muslim minorities. Nobody would have put Israel under the protection of Germany after 1945 as well.
Since it will be a small entity the threat from this new muslim country will not be very impressive for the rest of Europe. It is better to have stable and clear political conditions than a new “Gaza strip” within such a weak and incapable country like Serbia. There will be some loud whining about “the loss of old Serbian earth and monasteries” but the Serbs will be much better off without this badland. Instead of wasting huge amounts of money and blood into a senseless guerilla war they can concentrate on the economic development of their country.
How about some independence for the USA, el presidente jorge?
How can you speak of "freedom" for Muslims in Kosovo when they have ethnically cleansed by relocation hundreds of thousands of Christians and destroyed Christian holy sites around the country. What Bush is doing is choosing the "freedom" of one group at the expense of the "liberty" of another, more deserving group.
Its time for you to recognize who your friends are. Not all albanians who are muslim are our enemy. You supporting the serbs are basically saying that you support the extension of putinism and russian foreign policy. Albania has been on the US side since day one on the GWOT. They have allowed for CIA prisons, provided troops to iraq and afghanistan and openly support US foreign policy. Albania is a democracy in the heart of a muslim world. Albanian muslims that are extremist are few and far between. We need to learn to recognize who our friends are, because when we do look over our shoulder there isn’t that many that stand with us, but Albania is one of them and has been since communism collapsed there. So go ahead and keep supporting the Putinism/Serbian foreign policy and deny a country whose friendship is hard to find.
eventual UN security council pro-separatist decision = Munich Pact
Serbia = Czechoslovakia
“Kosavarians” = Sudeten Germans
Bush = ……….(fill the gap)
look at the photos of the presidents albanian trip. How man women do you see wearing burqas and fully covered? Its a very liberal society, pro-western and they love americans. One of the first things the albanian government did after 9-11 was to make all the arabs from the middle east board buses and kicked them out of the country. They also provided names and held suspected terrorist for the CIA
That is quite simple. Today they pose the majority among the residents. The majority rules in a democracy...
BuHuHaHa! This kind of argumentation is quite risky here on FR. Anyway - your comparison is limping. You should realize that President Bush does not wear a squarish black mustache.
“That is quite simple. Today they pose the majority among the residents. The majority rules in a democracy...”
So if Mexicans pose a majority of the population in the southern American states, and were to demand independence for their majority areas, we should allow it, right?
“”Sooner rather than later you’ve got to say `Enough’s enough. Kosovo’s independent,’” Bush said during a news conference with the prime minister of this tiny, impoverished country.”
I wonder if he would have the balls to make an equally applicable statement about Taiwan.
No, Bush is simply trying to please the left wing as usual. Every time he does something right, I prepare for the next liberal marxist sellout he will do and he has not failed being the foolish moderate liberal he is.
Jail Border Patrol for shooting a Mexican drug runner and
have open borders for Mexico!
INSANE!
The only good thing that came of 40+ years of Communist rule in Albania, was that Islam was destroyed in that country.
The most fanatical Muslims in Albanian diaspora are the Kosovo Albanians.
And if they get their independence, they aren’t going to stop there, they are going to want the big prize, domination of “Greater Albania.”
[Kosovo is a de facto muslim country. Therefore its residents need the possibility to choose a gouvernment that is suitable to their needs. This is what we all call freedom.]
I would think that this is taking one country and dividing it into two parts, one being Islamic and therefore an enemy of the Western nations and Israel. The democrats might call this progress, conservatives realize it is disaster for the nation that is split. And Israel is another one that P. Bush wants to exploit for the Islamic murderers.
That’s very interesting. Thanks for posting.
We also know what the Muslims have done to their non-muslim minorities.
[That is quite simple. Today they pose the majority among the residents. The majority rules in a democracy...]
No, they do not, that is a misconception of the liberal left who plan to destroy America and the Sovereign Constitution and freedoms we have enjoyed when our founding forefathers saw the dangers of democracy and set up a representitive republic.
You also have a situation in Albania much like Iraq. There are two primary groups in Albania, Ghegs and Tosks. The Tosks mostly live in the south of the country, and they dominated the Albanian government under Communist rule. Most of the Albanians in Kosovo are Ghegs, and there is a lot of resentment between the two groups that can very easily be exploited.
That is another reason why Kosovo indpendence is a bad idea. It makes IMHO an Albanian Civil War inevitable.
[So if Mexicans pose a majority of the population in the southern American states, and were to demand independence for their majority areas, we should allow it, right?]
It is the Bush doctrine that he hides so well. And the Mexican government plans to do just that(La Raza), don’t they. The only people in America who do not know it are liberals and rinos.
I'm not sure, but haven't we been in the former Yugoslavia now longer than we were ever in Vietnam?
Oh, but never mind; there's another hopeless endless quagmire, no light at the end of the tunnel, we've been involved in for.....43 years.
It's time to cut-and-run from the War on Poverty.
What interest he has in Albania to justify this political action? There is no logic here if you know that in the same time in Iraq, the Kurds are forced to live with the rest of those loons in one country.
Kosovo is NOT a country. The fact that muslims comprise 80% of the population on 4000sq. mi. of Serbian territory does not make them entitled to a country.
(Albanianss comprise only 20% of Serbia population) You do know that, do you? But chose to tell us otherwise.
How about giving slice of Germany to Turks? I am sure that they would eagerly aggregate into 4000 sq. miles in and around Berlin if this is a requirement.
Even better, give them 4000 sq. mi. in Dresden and surroundings. Or around Nuremberg.
Well said.
Thanks for all who posted. It is quite clear to me that a Muslim Kosovo is a bad idea.
Not Nuremburg; it is one of my favorite German cities. I spent a year there while working in an adjacent town.
Maybe the Muslims should get a part of the old East Germany. Just a suggestion /grin
WOW, this require courage. You compare the LIE (alleged genocide of Albanians) with the FACT (THE HOLOCAUST)
Anyone who compare THE HOLOCAUST with the result of Albanian terrorism is HOLOCAUST REVISIONIST. And you are Anti-Nazi.
In Germany, German Jews did nothing against fellow German Citizens. They did not murder Germnan postmen, forrest rangers, Policemen, they did not plant bombs in German cafes. They did not murder fellow Jews who were loyal to Germany. They were not used as a guerilla force of outside parties in order to provoke foreign intervention.
All of this was done by Albanian terrorists, trained by German Kommando Spezialkraefte. (Old allegiances slowly die. Germans are loyal to their NAZI allies.)
Albanian terrorists murdered more than 1000 Albanians before NATO intervention and more than 1000 after NATO occupation of Serbian province of Kosovo. All this deaths are attributed to Serbs. This is sick.
Your comparison of 6 millions Jews murdered for BEING JEWS and some 1000 Albanians muredered by Serbian police and army in counter-terrorist operations is realy sick.
If Anti-Nazis are openly expressing Holocaust revisionism, I wonder what Nazis are like. Die Fahne hoch!Die Reihen dicht geschlossen! EU marschiert Mit ruhig festem Schritt...
Dude, Albania is one thing. Kosovo another. Kosovo is NOT Albania. It is Serbia. It is only populated by Albanian illegals, like Souther California.
Following your logic, California should be given to Mexico. Or part of Turkey to Kurds in Iraq.
Btw. on June 10, W will visit Albania. And guess what, the entire security detail will be provided by USMC.
Albanian Republican Guard will not be allowed to carry arms during W's visit.
Secret Service knows better than you what kind of ally Albania really is.
Its time for you to recognize who your friends are. Not all albanians who are muslim are our enemy. You supporting the serbs are basically saying that you support the extension of putinism and russian foreign policy.
...
Dude, US is supporting Muslim maniacs. Saudi Arabia is infiltrating Serbia (Bosnia fell long time ago) with Wehabbi terrorists, and Saudis are US ally. US is building Islamofascist state in my country, serbia. I dont care where help will come from, Russia, Klingon Empire or Donald Duck, we just need help to protect Serbia from Islam.
As for fact that US allied with Islamofascist, it is mainly problem and tragedy for US.
With this US-Islamic alliance, WOT is thrown into dirt. Its like State Dep. took 3,000 US servicemen and mashinegun them down infront of White House. Why they fought and died for?
So W can make better oil deals with Islamofascists?
Dude, Im not worried for Serbia, we will surrvive, Im worried about US. Who will help you? Who will stop commies and Islamists within US senate?
Sometimes I believe that it is not that Serbian Kosovo is occupied by Islamofascist alone, and that US fell to communism in late 70es and ti Islam in 90es.
Russians? I this US policy continues, US Christians will seek help from Russia aswell as Serbian Christians do now.
What country will jump-in to save US from commies and Islamists?
France? Germany?... Albania?
Once I said that with this policy of love towards Islam, is just like Roosevelt went to Hitler to seek help in owerthrowing Mussolini, and calling that War On Nazism.
Uh huh, except when they demand their own country. When Serbian majorities demanded the lands where they’re majority in (Bosnia, Croatia), that was a problem, now, wasn’t it ? How is it not a problem when another majority asks the same ?
This is just further fall out from the incompetence of the state department during the cold war.
They have successfully supported a genocide by moslems and sugar coated it to the here today gone tommorrow elected politicians.
Independent Kossovo is about an intelligent decision by GWBush as Supporting the Religious fanatics in IRAN was for Jimmy Carter.
Both did and DO lead to the same bloody result for the world.
The cheering is for a nevil chamberlin moment for GWBush.
(they only need room to grow, they only want peaceful coexistence, peace in our time.)
Powerful post and I understand your points.
I perfectly agree neutron and co.
What a huge blindness or illusion it is to think that albanians and kosovars will always support USA when they will need you no more.
And what an absurdity and fault to let and more to help the birth of new countries on the basis of religion and ISLAMIC religion when everyone knows that religion of peace and tolerance.This will be a clear sign in many areas everywhere for idenpendency claims.
Europe,Russia,Asia,Africa...have all big problems with muzzies.Just watch a map!
It’s time to leave the naive or cynic liberal multicultural stance.
As french i followed and supported the re-election of GWB in 2004.Now i don’t understand him
“We should support the Serbs”
This is sounding increasingly plausible to me. Islam is as much a political movement as it is a religion.
lets get to the point here and quit hiding things. Albanians were being abused, it wasn’t a religious war it was an ethnic war to begin with. Quit trying to turn this into an islamic vs christian war because we both know that not all albanians are muslim, and the albanians that are muslim are not extremist. Next how do you explain the fact that montenegro, and croatia also wanted to split from serbia? ITS BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING ABUSED BY RUSSIAN BACKED COMMIES. Serbia was a dead end country with an oppressive government. Kosovo, Albania, Bosnia, Croatia, and now Montenegro want to be independent and 100% free from oppressive anti capitalistic regimes that seem to take hold in belgrade and moscow.
California would not go to mexico or succeed. For one your logic is flawed. People are coming here to escape short comings in THEIR OWN nation. Albanians, Montenegro, Croats and all the others succeeded from serbia because they were being ABUSED. I don’t think the meixcans in the uS are being abused and will want to succeed back to mexico. Try again partner. Serbia and Russia are oppressive regimes and that is why these nations split. Take a second look at the big picture and realize who our real allies are and who is selling equipment and weapons to iran, syria, and the iraqis before the war. Russia and Serbia.
Your comparison of 6 millions Jews murdered for BEING JEWS and some 1000 Albanians muredered by Serbian police and army in counter-terrorist operations is realy sick.
Read this:
I do not doubt that the Holocaust had a completely different dimension. Therefore this comparison was wrong. I should not have used it. Excuse me. Nevertheless the attitude of Serbians towards other ethnic groups in the wider area always had the character of genocide during the Milosevic era. Maybe you remember Srebrenica. Furthermore there was indeed mass-murder committed by Serbs in Kosovo (see the link). Somehow I think it is not funny to round up harmless villagers to massacre them with machine guns then. It remembers me closely to the "counter-terrorist operations" of nazi Germany. This was the reason why I talked about the "Holocaust" (which is not accurate as I already said). But it should be understandable -even for somebody who is a staunch pro-Serbian- that muslims in that area do not have any reason to trust into "Serbian protection".
All of this was done by Albanian terrorists, trained by German Kommando Spezialkraefte. (Old allegiances slowly die. Germans are loyal to their NAZI allies.)
Do you have any proof to this statement?
EU marschiert Mit ruhig festem Schritt...
...Links zwo drei vier... But excuse me, isn't it the US President George Walker Bush who urges independence for Kosovo???! I did not hear any statements of the European Union about Kosovo recently. Therefore - do you really call the Kosovo- policy of President Bush nazism???!
Germany is country where truth comes out. Check this for starters Read the transcript to prepare yourself for the ugly facts.
And French love to talk when Germans mess up
Kesselring, Neumann et al. armed and trained terrorists.
I believe that you can find relevant German sources about this. It is interesting how with the unification Germany lost the gild of anti-war and anti-interventionist country. Constitution was scraped and allowed German forces to act outside German territory. Legislation was changed to allow German police to use military type of gases. And so on. German greens have become vultures, not doves. However, I believe that there are some German greens who would like to dig deeper into KLA/KSK connection.
I've gave you the map where to dig. It's up to you wheter you will dig or not.
I will not express my opinion about Srebrenica, because World Court decided that Serbia has nothing with it, whatever it was.
It is not relevant to Kosovo discussion.
The number of dead in Kosovo before and during the war is augmented approximately three fold, (10 000 instead of 3000) and all dead (Albanians, Serbs, Roma) are depicted as Albanians killed by "Serbs". At the same time, 850 Serbs and over 1000 Albanians murdered after NATO ocupation are either not taken into consideration, or calculated as killed by Serbs. The number of Albanians and Serbs killed by KLA outnumbers Albanians killed by Serbian police and Army by 2:1. All dead Albanians were not civilians, no matter how propaganda tries to depict them as such.
It is interesting that if Serbs are the racists as you describe them to be, how come Serbia is the most ethnically diverse country of former Yugoslavia? Slovenia, Croatia, Muslim part of Bosnia, Occupied Kosovo all have cleansed the other ethnicities.
Take for example Wehrmacht ethnic map of Yugoslavia made in 1940 and compare it to Year 2000 ethnic map and answer to the simple question; What happened to the Serbs who were majority of population in Bosnia, what happened to the Serbs who were 20% population in Croatia, what happened to Serbs who were majority in Kosovo?
Before WWII, Serbs comprised overwhelming majority in Kosovo. With German occupation in WWII, some 10 000 Serbs were murdered , 100 000 chased out and immigrants from Albania settled on their homesteads.
After the war, Croatian Communist Dictator Tito forbade Serbs to get back to their homesteads and allowed massive immigration from Albania through the porous borders comparable to Mexico/USA.
Hundreds of thousands of Albanians escaped "short comings in THEIR OWN nation" and settled in Kosovo. When they became the majority by overbreeding and chasing out the local Serbs, they want the independent country for themselves, although their have a country of their own, Albania. In that country, Albanians managed for less than 100 years to destroy and assimilate 40% of non-Albanian population. Because they do not like the &*&#hole of theirs, they devised plan to make another country for themselves.
Exactly opposite of your point.
Please don't me started on who was selling weapons to Iraqis during Saddam. It will be sufficient to remind you that poison gas used to kill the Kurds was provided by The United States, not Serbia. More American companies were doing business with Saddam than Serbian. And more oil came to U.S. from Saddam than from Kuwait. Saddam was on CIA payroll since 1957, not on Serbian payroll. And what we have to do about this, to give first 13 States to Cuba or to Chicoms because of that ?
Please keep the conversation on Kosovo. It has nothing to do with Russia, Iraq or anything else. If you have the valid arguments, fine. If you don't have I do not blame you. There are none.
“. Next how do you explain the fact that montenegro, and croatia also wanted to split from serbia? ITS BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING ABUSED BY RUSSIAN BACKED COMMIES.”
No, Mr. Cold Warrior. Croatia left because it wanted a state of it’s own. Yugoslavia was basically always a fragile ethnic hodgepodge, and the only two things really holding it together was dictatorial control, and fear of a possible Soviet invasion, ala Czechsolakia, 1968. Montenegro left because it felt that it would be more likely to get into the EU if it was independent. And some Montenegrin supporters of independence had, shall we say, less altruistic motives. Google “Djukanovic” and “cigarette smuggling”.
the clintons read robert kaplan’s “balkan ghosts”, an over-rated book imo. they took the side of the moslems against the south slavs.
bush bot is continuing their moslem policy.
i don’t agree. the field of crows is highly symbolic to the south slavs and they’re embittered that the u.s. is working against them.
the clinton and bush policies agitate the russians. at the end of the cold war and the fall of the soviet union the u.s. promised understanding. the russians feel humiliated.
Good relevant point Kronos
Cheers from Ulysse(France actually another dhimmy country))
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.