National borders erased for airlines in new plan

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | June 13, 2007

[BigAlPro]

In real estate, property lines go all the way down into the earth and all the way up into the sky. The same needs to apply to America’s borders!

[cowtowney]

Maybe I’m missing something, but all this seems to say is that other airlines can fly in the US. This seem like a good thing, not a bad thing.

We need more domestic competition. As an example, the American Airlines of the world have kept out the Virgin Airlines from lowering fares. Why should that be? Virgin has tried to fly here for years. The US airlines have been price fixing for years.

[SW6906]

Relax people, this is nothing but a hysteria article trying to whip people into a frenzy. Corsi and his cohorts are trying to scare people with half-truths.

Stop and think for a moment. When you go into any international airport in America, do you only see American-based airlines? No, you see airlines from around the world - some are tiny airlines with only a few flights a week to far-away places. Foreign countries are already flying their airplanes into and over our country and they have been for decades.

What this agreement does is remove barriers that don't allow - for example - Air Canada from competing on the New York to Los Angeles route or the Los Angeles to Tokyo route. Air Canada is already flying into and over America, they're just not allowed to compete on routes within or starting from America.

Last time I checked, competition was good and conservatives were all for open markets and competition........

[Paleo Conservative]

We need more domestic competition. As an example, the American Airlines of the world have kept out the Virgin Airlines from lowering fares. Why should that be? Virgin has tried to fly here for years. The US airlines have been price fixing for years.

Continental was opposed to Virgin America starting up so long as Continental was barred by treaty from flying to London Heathrow airport (LHR). Virgin America wasn't about offering low fairs; it was about funneling traffic to Virgin Atlantic to LHR. The new open skies treaty with the EU abolishes the unfair and anticompetitive Bermuda II treaty that allows only two flag carriers each for Britain and the US to fly between eight designated US cities and LHR. The US carriers were orginally Pan Am and TWA, but are now United and American. The current British carriers allowed are British Airways and Virgin Atlantic.

Not only were only two airlines per country allowed but several cities with major hubs were barred from having nonstop service to LHR in violation of Article 1, Section 9 9 of the US Constitution. In particular the Bermuda II Treaty signed in the 1970's bars nonstop flight between airports in Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston and LHR. This is discriminatory against an entire region of the US. Even though American Airlines has US rights to Heathrow, they are prohibited to fly DFW-LHR. Continental which has a hub in the New York City area (Newark(EWR)) and Delta at JFK are both prohibited from flying passengers to LHR from the New York area airports. Neither Delta nor Continental is allowed to fly from their headquarters hubs in Houston (IAH) or Atlanta (ATL) to LHR.

Under these circumstances, why should a new foreign controlled airline be allowed to skim off traffic from American carriers? Continental was arguing that under the law it wasn't just the percentage of foreign ownership (25%) that mattered but also the control of the board of directors. The Virgin America board was just a hand picked bunch of Richard Branson's puppets who were coordinating with Virgin Atlantic. The new not yet ratified open skies treaty will abolish all the LHR restrictions and allow any airline from the EU to serve any US airport from any EU airport or any US airline to serve any EU airport from any US airport. When the LHR restrictions are eliminated, I would have no problem with Virgin America starting up.

Article 1.
Section 9

....................

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

....................

If you want on or off my aerospace ping list, please contact me by Freep mail.

[xjcsa]

[yawn]

[SW6906]

I hope some of the earlier posters to this thread return and read our posts.....

[Paleo Conservative]

I just pinged about 300 people.

[nicmarlo]

Peters met with Mexico's Secretary of Commerce and Transportation Luis Téllez and Canada's Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communications Lawrence Cannon to define under the Security and Prosperity Partnership a North American transportation system that will meet the continental needs of "free trade" agreements including NAFTA and the World Trade Organization, he reported.

...But the next step, a North American Open Skies agreement, would virtually eliminate those national boundaries, as far as air carriers are concerned, Corsi reported.

ping!

[SW6906]

If people really want to understand how all this works, they can read up on Freedoms of the air. This is about granting more of those "freedoms" to foreign carriers - in return for granting them to our carriers.

Free and open markets are what conservatives are for, right?!!?

[Leftism is Mentally Deranged]

The airline part is good. The highway part is bad. And this does not erase national boundaries.

[nicmarlo]

this does not erase national boundaries.

Ever heard of the word "incrementalism"?

That's what is happening. The end goal is the erasure of America's sovereignty, Canada's sovereignty, and Mexico's sovereignty.

And if you think you'll be hearing an overt announcement concerning this (yet)....that would be foolish of them. There's too many people, from each country, who would revolt.

Incrementalism allows the sheep to stay asleep or watch American Idol as they sip their lattes.

[spectre]

May 13, 2007

Mexican Airlines Look at Arkansas

"Two Mexican airlines wanting to reach a growing immigrant population in Arkansas and neighboring states may soon add direct flights to Little Rock.

Aeromexico and Mexicana, two of Mexico's largest airlines, are in discussions to fly in and out of Little Rock National Airport, said airport spokesman Philip Launius. The hope, Launius said, is that the airport would be the central hub for travel to Mexico from Arkansas, Louisiana, Missouri and Tennessee."

Source: http://www.ibtimes.com Traducido: usando

[Moose4]

Doesn’t Delta (and maybe others) do their London flights in and out of Gatwick, instead of Heathrow, for just this reason?

}:-)4

[Paleo Conservative]

Yes.

[Global2010]

My buddy and I heard this BIG (rolling my eyes) story on the news that ICE had busted a company and took 167 illegals into custody for deportation.

Ewwww awe (as we say on the 4th of July when the bombs/fireworks are bursting in air) I guess that big bust now only leaves 11 million more illegals to go.

I am really getting sick and tired (maybe just older and wiser) of our Govt playing us for a bunch of dumb rocks.

Seems like the guys in Washington who are sticking to their vows end up being falsely accused/investigated for some BS when they don’t play along with the corrupt.

[Global2010]

I will NEVER be ready.
Hence my tongue in cheek screen name.

I have never been a big Pat Buchanan fan but seem to be liking his views more and more as the day gets closer to one world Govt.

It was just on the news two days ago that the idiots in DC can’t get the passports out to North/South America/Canada so now it’s O K not to have one untill they get caught up on all the requests.

What a bunch of hooey.

[cowtowney]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117952129472007891-search.html?KEYWORDS=virgin+airlines&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month

I missed this. Virgin got approval. Good. “U.S. regulations limit holdings by a foreign shareholder in a U.S. carrier to no more than 25% of its voting shares” Stupid antiquated law, designed to reduce competition.

Virgin America to Start Flying Midsummer
By PAULO PRADA
May 19, 2007; Page A2

Virgin America, the low-cost upstart airline founded by British billionaire Richard Branson, plans to begin flying midsummer, following a ruling Friday by the federal government that the carrier meets foreign-ownership rules.

In a blow to the airline’s initial strategy, however, the government denied a request by Virgin America that Frederick W. Reid, its chief executive officer, be allowed to remain at its helm. Because Mr. Reid was personally hired by Sir Richard to get the fledgling effort airborne, the government has argued that Mr. Reid remains “beholden” to foreign interests and must step down within six months.

After a 17-month struggle by Virgin America to obtain regulatory approval, the Department of Transportation in a ruling said the carrier had taken sufficient steps to allay government concerns over Virgin America’s ownership structure.

U.S. regulations limit holdings by a foreign shareholder in a U.S. carrier to no more than 25% of its voting shares. Though Sir Richard’s Virgin Group Ltd. owns just under that amount, competitor U.S. airlines successfully lobbied the government that Virgin America’s British investors held undue sway over its management and financing.

[Paleo Conservative]

I missed this. Virgin got approval. Good. “U.S. regulations limit holdings by a foreign shareholder in a U.S. carrier to no more than 25% of its voting shares” Stupid antiquated law, designed to reduce competition.

So why should that limit be eliminated before LHR gets opened up to any airline that wants in?

[cowtowney]

“So why should that limit be eliminated before LHR gets opened up to any airline that wants in?”

I agree that everything should be equal. The problem is that if you wait for that, you will be very disappointed. The world is not perfect.

This is the same principal as trading with China, which is not fair. The downside of not trading is very bad.

[Comstock1]

I would love to catch a Houston to Toronto or Vancouver flight on Southwest.

Everybody here is seeing it as a “sky is falling” situation, but I think that neither Canada nor Mexico has an airline that could immediately compete with Southwest.