Posted on 06/20/2007 5:24:39 AM PDT by spirited irish
Are you submitting that is a necessary consequence of being corporeal? That is the context of what you're replying to.
That's not free will. Not even close. Judgement and choice is the department two doors down the hall.
LOL!
OOOOPS! Jeffrey Dahmer's father, Lionel, was (is?) a CREATIONIST activist and speaker, who taught little Jeffrey creationism, and morality, and how to interpret the Bible. AiG even lists him among some modern scientists who have accepted the biblical account of creation.
Hardly. The Nazis believed the human races were primeval, NOT evolved, and that each race was originally CREATED with it's distinctive features, or "race soul" as the Nazi's premier philosopher of race, Alfred Rosenberg, put it.
From Wikipedia's entry on Rosenberg's book (emphasis added):
Rosenberg was inspired by Meister Eckhart, the racist theories of Houston Stewart Chamberlain, Richard Wagner's romanticism and also by Aryanism. He believed that God created man as separate races, not as individuals or mankind as a whole, and that only the race has a soul. [Rosenberg's] The Myth of the Twentieth Century was conceived of as a sequel to Chamberlain's The Foundation of the Nineteenth Century (Yahil, 1991, p. 41).
The Nazis' eugenics campaign was not about creating a new superior race, but rather about recovering the blood purity of the ancient Aryan race. They were by no means attempting to advance evolution, but rather to reverse it: To restore the original CREATED order which had been marred by "race mixing".
Judging by the responses, it appears that the question cannot be answered because it was blasphemy to ask in the first place.
Of course there is. Or, rather, there is no science of evolution, there is only the philosophy of evolution.
For, whatever be the ultimate verdict of posterity upon this or that opinion which Mr. Darwin has propounded; whatever adumbrations or anticipations of his doctrines may be found in the writings of his predecessors; the broad fact remains that, since the publication and by reason of the publication, of "The Origin of Species" the fundamental conceptions and the aims of the students of living Nature have been completely changed... But the impulse thus given to scientific thought rapidly spread beyond the ordinarily recognised limits of biology. Psychology, Ethics, Cosmology were stirred to their foundations, and the "Origin of Species" proved itself to be the fixed point which the general doctrine of evolution needed in order to move the world. - T.H. Huxley, Darwin Memorial Essay, 1885.In addition to the truth of the doctrine of evolution, indeed, one of its greatest merits in my eyes, is the fact that it occupies a position of complete and irreconcilable antagonism to that vigorous and consistent enemy of the highest intellectual, moral, and social life of mankind – the Catholic Church. - T.H. Huxley, Darwin's Critics, 1871.
I don't know if you just don't think before you type (we all make this mistake at times), or you are ignorant of the facts, or if you were intentionally dishonest because you saw this as a way to take a cheap shot at creationists and you just could not restrain yourself. (Afterall, there is no God watching you anyway?)
While Jeffrey Dahmer's father Lionel is a creationist, the creationist father is not the one who is guilty of murder, instead he is a fine man from all accounts.
The homosexual EVOLUTIONIST Jeffery Dahmer rejected the Creator God of his father and instead Jeffrey Dahmer embraced the philosophy of godless EVOLUTION.
So as you can clearly see the only murderer here is the homosexual EVOLUTIONIST Jeffrey Dahmer.
While you intended to blame the creationism of Lionel Dahmer for Jeffrey Dahmer's sins, the fact is if there is a philosophy to blame it would be that of godless EVOLUTION which little Jeffrey embraced in place of the belief in a Creator God that his father taught him.
Instead of listening to his father, Jeffrey Dahmer listened to the anti-Christian humanists whose propaganda has poisoned the culture and undermined belief in the Creator.
Jeffrey Dahmer is ultimately responsible for his own sins, however, those who helped remove Dahmer's belief in a righteous God who says murder is absolutely wrong will be held responsible for their part on judgement day.
Since you obviously do not have the facts, let me sum it up for you.
Jeffrey Dahmer basically felt this way, according to his own father -- "If you - if a person doesn't think that there is a God to be accountable to, then - then what's - what's the point of - of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?"
Here is Dahmer's own confession not long before he died: " That's how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we - when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing....."
You got it backwards Stultis,------- can you say OOOOPS?
Some maniacal killers and/or despots have been atheists. Some maniacal killers and/or despots have been theists. Some maniacal killers and/or despots have thought their dog was giving instructions. Who cares? What does that have to do with whether there is a God, and if so, what is the “true” religion?
Religion is not simply a strong belief in something or anything. Religion is a belief in a supernatural creator who interacts with this physical reality, demands worship from humans, and metes out rewards and punishments to our “souls” which survive death. Evolution does not take a position on whether there is a supernatural creator or being. It simply says that organisms evolve. It is not a religion. It is not a philosophy. It is a scientific theory, and a damn good one at that.
You're awfully willing to grant Huxley absolute authority in the matter.
But both that belief -- that if evolution is true there is no God -- and what follows from that belief -- that if there is no God then there is no basis for morality and anything goes -- those are both CREATIONIST beliefs, not "evolutionist" ones. They were likely taught to Jeffrey by his father, and are frequently asserted by creationists in these threads.
His father must have had some impact, since Jeffrey became a Christian in jail after reviewing creationist material from the ICR. (Which, btw, given the nature of such material, could explain his blaming his crimes on evolution.)
Why on earth do you suppose the Islamofascists are "creationists?" Where is your evidence for this?
It seems you regard "creationist" and "creationism" as terms of opprobrium that can be applied willy-nilly to people you dislike. For the record, the creator God of the creationists, and the "god" called Allah, are virtually polar opposites. The former is a God of love, life, light, human flourishing and human freedom; the latter, a god of vengeance who demands nothing from human beings but submission to his murderous, bloody-minded will. Man must surrender his freedom to be in good graces with this ersatz god.
The so-called "religion of peace" espouses the same kind of "peace" that the former Soviet Union did, as denoted by the Russian word, mir: Peace is defined as what follows from the utter subjection or annihilation of all "enemies." As long as there are "enemies," there can be no peace.
In expansion of your argument, betty, not only is our Creator all of those things withwhich you pointed out, but He created this world for those whom He made in His image. Therefore, mankind is the apex of the universe and endowed with God-given rights.
Evolutionary Humanism (naturalism)is not only antithetical to all of this, but downright hostile. For just as pre-Biblical pagans believed that man was created by the creation and must therefore live in submission to it, so too does todays neo-pagan Evolutionary Humanism conform to this belief. Seen in the context of history, the communist project is simply a way of forcing man-—who is viewed as an aggressive parasite-— to live in submission and correct conformity to his ‘creator.’ Within this worldview,population control in its many manifestations such as abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, etc., are viewed as morally correct things to do.
Didn’t God create Muslims? Knowing how they were going to worship and what they were going to do? Likewise for Christians, Hindus and all others? Doesn’t God know why, when and where or even if, His creations are going to peaceful or not?
While the diety inivolved may not be the same, the belief that He created man as he is today, as opposed to the idea that he is the product of a process of evolution is that same. Objectively, Islamic beliefs fit that description. We can arbitrarily declare that only Christians can properly be considered creationist, but that's a tacit admission that we have no intention of having or allowing objectivity in the debate.
Because they believe their god made the universe in a miraculous fashion.
the latter, a god of vengeance who demands nothing from human beings but submission to his murderous, bloody-minded will. Man must surrender his freedom to be in good graces with this ersatz god.
Gee, it sounds almost Old Testament!
Not only Christians have a reverence for life. But clearly, Islamists do not. There's a difference here, though it might not be politically correct to draw attention to it.
Creation is a loving act. Beheading people is not. You cannot hide behind an argument of "moral equivalency," or of groundless personal bias here; i.e., my supposed lack of "objectivity." The distinctions I draw are perfectly "objective." Just open your eyes and look at what's going on. Then if you report back and say there's no difference among religious believers, I'd have to conclude that you are the one who is biased, who lacks objectivity.
"Moral equivalency" is based on entirely subjective arguments. That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Show me a definition of "creationism" from a standard reference that backs up your argument.
According to Darwinian and Dawkinian logic humans evolved to believe in GOD(seek their source).. No other animal/insect/plant does that.. Salmon do on another level..
That's ood. I was told on this same thread that evolution doesn't address the spiritual (metaphysical) aspects of man at all (and that in doing so denies that they exist at all).
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