Posted on 06/24/2007 7:16:18 PM PDT by listenhillary
The key to the argument is the “ folks in the private sector without significant skill sets” part.
I would agree that the janitors, truck drivers, and sociology majors can be compared in a valid manner.
I would not agree that the police officers, teachers, or helicopter pilots can be validly compared.
I meant professionals in the private sector more along the lines of molecular biologist, Wall Street analyst, high-end graphic artist/packaging designer, etc. as significant skill sets.
Those without specialized skill sets, such as the guy who hangs sheet rock or paints houses, are quickly seeing their jobs go to illegal immigrants in a salary race to the bottom. This also applies to middle management types who have seen their jobs off-shored to india.
Your line about ‘all those others with their rich stock options’ yada yada yada was fed to you by other government hacks.
You have been conditioned to think that your pigging out at the government trough is justified because of all those ‘excesses’ you been told exist in the private sector.
And deep down you know you don’t deserve it else you wouldn’t be posting here.
BTW working one’s butt off could be done just as easily in a gym and the productive output would be equal to a government job, ‘zilch’.
In my young life I was an engineer in Rickover’s Navy. I put in alot of long hours but I do not call it hard work because there was very little risk, if you know what risk means. I risked my life serving my country but that’s not the kind of risk I am talking about. I call that part of my life paid for by the Federal Reserve and taxpayers ‘a sleep deprived phase in my life’ where I gained heavy experience about science, engineering, leadership and management of large organizations. So you’re wrong to say I don’t have a clue. I most certainly am clued in more than I ever bargained for.
But the military active duty is not where the problem is. The active duty is controllable and can be held accountable. Military active duty is also not unionized.
The problem is a bloated government sector. As I posted before the government could shed 50% of its workforce and no one would notice. Most government functions can be carried out by the private sector but the unions have had legislatures write protections for their numbers into law.
And if the total tax rate load including embedded product taxes and inflation were not projected repeatedly and accurately at 85%, if instead tax rates were projected to be reasonable and stable, then I and others could care less if you tripled dipped, quadrupled dipped or cornered the market on dipping.
What I am aware of and what you are reading is known by tens of thousands in Washington DC, many of whom are in positions of authority. You can choose to mouth off at one poster on an internet forum but it will not change what is going to happen. I hope you will be able to understand that.
Huh?! What was that? Did I miss something while I was on break?
Q. How is the Post Office like a shoe store?
A. They both have thousands of loafers!
Thank you, I’ll be here all month folks...
“And deep down you know you don’t deserve it ...”
You can sit there and whine about the retirement benefits that some of us enjoy until the cows come home and it won’t change the fact that we have earned them.
“Your line about ‘all those others with their rich stock options’ “
If you are in the private sector and are not getting decent bonuses and options, it says something about your education, work ethic and/or abilities.
If instead of sitting at the computer whining about government workers at the public trough, you were working as hard as you could be; you might be actually earning the bonuses and options that many talented, hard working folks in the private sector enjoy.
Am I the only one who has never had a problem with the Post Office?
So I am not whining in the least. On the other hand you have not understood one iota of what I posted. But I can glean your education and intelligence level from your defensiveness so I do not expect you to understand. I expect you to be mouthy and pugnacious.
The fact is the demographics in this country are going to get ugly and soon. When that happens the tax rates are going through the roof. When that happens the taxpayers are going to be asking lots of questions as to where their taxes are going.
When taxpayers get informed of how many unproductive government employees exist and how many are double, triple or even quadruple dipping on taxpayer funded retirements there will be a revolt.
That’s what you need to understand. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, it is going to happen because there are no more shell games that GAO and the Federal Reserve can perform, there are no more tricks or smoke and mirror tactics that can overcome the liabilities coming.
The USA is going broke and for a little while longer will have the Fed Reserve print money and try to up taxes as well as play games with Social Security caps, retirement age, etc. When this happens (and it will) Americans are going to return to their traditional discipline of managing money wisely. When they do that, the gravy train you say you 'earned' will be shutdown for future retirees. We already know Social Security and Medicare will be bankrupt.
Your triple source taxpayer funded retirement income will continue but it will decline in value as the Fed Reserve dilutes it further in an attempt to carry the entitlements for the US government. You will be left gnashing your teeth as you grow older, complaining about not being able to afford things as you used to. And there will not be much sympathy for your complaints.
And, they have healthcare, retirement, and vacation benefits that us working stiffs in the private sector can only dream of.
I would think the number of people getting a full ride on double dipping would small. The only body that really has a chance at it would be police officers and retired military people before retirement was changed to 30 years. The military people that retired at 20 years had to find another job. The only people I've heard of triple dipping are politicians that scam the system.
Most state workers don't pay into SS and there is a program in effect called WEP (Windfall Exclusion Program) to adjust the payout if they did pay into SS. Someone that works 30 years for the state and 10 years in private industry doesn't collect 100% SS. The only way to collect at 100% is to put in the quarters. If they had a second job, then they earned it.
Probably.
Kidding, I work there and get fed up with loafers and Dilbertian managers.
The business customers screaming for the available discounts that your first class full rate mail subsidizes are a treat too. The ones that aren’t incompetent are out and out crooks.
My only complaint about the post office is that they should sell packing supplies — bubble wrap, boxes, etc. I use the overnight service regularly — cheaper than fedex or ups and just as reliable. I would also note that since Fedex bought out Kinkos, the place has gone downhill. Apparently they fired or ran off everyone with the least of tech savvy or pride in their work.
Your info is spot on.
Here's a question I often wondered about, and since you seem to know your Colorado sources, I'll take the liberty of asking.
I remember reading a few years back that there is a state law that prohibts a state or local government from engaging in any activity that could be done in the private sector.
I think it's an old law, or possibily in the state constitution.
I heard an older gentleman speak of it once at a city council meeting, and I wonder about it every time the governments around here take over another legitmate business facility.
Have you ever heard of it ?
That position of civil servant used to be for life. Pay was not great, but the job was nearly certain. Then the politicians jumped in and next thing you know civil servants were on the street and sycophants were in the office. So the civil servants organized and the pay went up at the same time firing got real hard for the politicians and they could mostly clean out the management levels only. That’s what happens when you get corruption in the system.
It’s a principle we like in Alaska. It’s astonishing how often a private citizen stands up to announce that the local gov’t should do this or that because gov’t could do it cheaper than the private sector. Of course gov’t could do it cheaper if you look at user fees only and ignore driving private business out of business. Still, they keep trying to get gov’t into business, both public and private sector persons do this. They are clueless.
The political machines -- Boss Tweed, Tammany Hall, etc. got so corrupt, however that a reform movement developed. Grover Cleveland was a great reformer, popular for his honesty and incorruptibility, he established the Federal civil service, which Wilson expanded, which FDR expanded and which has expanded since.
The civil service was supposed to be incorruptible by politicals -- the jobs were not at the pleasure of the elected officials anymore, they were permanent. Downside -- it became exceedingly difficult to hold "civil servants" accountable, and civil servants have since come more and more to view the job as a "job" sans duty or responsibility, instead hiring contractors to do anything that might be held accoutable, or that is risky.
At the same time the nature of human pride has caused bureaucracies to want to grow in seats, for each ten seats gets a corner cube, and each ten corner cubes gets a window office, and each ten window offices gets a corner office, and each ten corner offices gets an office with a waiting room and sub offices for executive secretaries.
All offices equipted with the latest do-dads and supported by health clubs, employee perks, day care, and multi million dollar pensions (valued as annuities), all bent to the task of showing up to "work", in the best possible workplace.
Now there are some parts here and there were a FedGov ageny or part thereof actually does something, but those rogue or disdained parts are always bottom-rung in salary and perks and noted for the meaness and toxicity of management-worker relations (e.g. Post Offices, Border Patrol).
The new elite: govmint workers with higher salaries and even better defined benefit retirement plans.
The unions have bankrupted our country thanks to mentally bankrupt polticians.
BTW I am not preaching doom here as I see a positive development coming out of all this, the FairTax and the repeal of the 16th Amendment. This will solve the entrenched government union problem by forcing accountability. It will also force a reform of the Federal Reserve which is not federal at all but maybe should be. It is no more federal than Federal Express. There is no amendment that supports the Federal Reserve. It was an act passed in 1913 as a quid pro for passage of the 16th Amendment.The Fairtax does nothing about he Federal Reserve nor does it repeal the 16th amendment.
Under the Fairtax "any government" is a taxable employer and ALL wages salaries and benefits (from Presidents to peons, including the military) are subject to the Fairtax.
Your precious Fairtax would increase the cost of local state and federal government payrolls by 30% and that doesn't include the 30% tax ON retirement or health "benefits". Government services would cost us 30% more than today...unless you think government employee's are going to take a pay cut.
Read the bill...it's a disaster waiting to happen.
Oh, you also better hope your millions aren't earning unterest over the basic fed fund rate because any thing over (earned or paid) is also subject to the 30% Fairtax
Do yourself a favor, throw away the stupid Fairtax book and read the bill. It's HR25, you can find it at thomas.gov.
Several kids are arguing which of their dads is the better driver.
First kid : My daddy's great. He gets off work at 4:30 and he's home every day right at 5:00.
Second kid: HA! My dad's better. He gets off work at 4:30 and he's always home at ten till five.
Third kid: My dad's got you both beat. He works for the government, and he gets off at 4:30, but he's always home by 3:30.
Full Disclosure:
Q. How many people work for the Social Security Administration?
A. About two thirds of them.
Cheers!
When the Republicans controlled Colorado (if you can remember that long ago), public-private competition was a big issue. I have not heard anything about the issue since the Democrats took control.
Here is a link to a document describing the issues. There was a law passed in 1989 but apparently the law is not enforced.
http://www.i2i.org/articles/PoliticsandGovernment/12-1993.PDF
This practice is very costly to taxpayers. The average retirement age is about 57. The part-time work encourages early retirement and additional hiring. The average private sector worker is happy to be employed in a good position at age 57. Once again, government employees are a unique, privileged class.
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