Posted on 06/25/2007 12:39:01 PM PDT by ZGuy
The article says,
"Earlier, he had already spent eight months in jail for calling abortionists “professional killers” – an allegation which the court ruled to be slanderous because, according to the court, the unborn are not humans."
Is that a factual statement or not? If it true then he was in fact put in jail for opposing abortion, which is neither a distortion or a "lie for Jesus".
Still, I don't get what sense it makes for the article to say that he was put in jail for comparing abortion-killing to the holocaust since he apparently denies the holocaust. What sense would it make for him to liken abortion-killing to something that he apparently thinks didn't happen?
Cordially,
I’ve asked you to post a link several times now. What are you afraid of???
If he's a Christian, what's he doing attempting to defend the holocaust?
If he's a Christian, what's he doing attempting to defend the holocaust?
And I've told you, follow coyotemans link. What. You think I typed all that stuff in by hand just to fool you? Cut and paste, baby.
Most of the "Lost Tribe" gang dispute the facts of the holocaust.(and sincerely believe that they are descendents of Jacob)
I looked for Coyoteman’s links and couldn’t find them. So instead of trying to buy time and wear me out, just post them.
What? Do you a favor? After all the things you've said?
Just think for a moment, if you're capable of that. Would the German government put a guy in jail for comparing abortion to the holocaust? Or would they put him in jail for holocaust denial? You think they don't have defense lawyers in Germany? You think his congregation just wrote him off and refused to stand buy him for innocent statements about abortion? Or perhaps maybe because he really did defend the holocaust.
Just think about it for a minute and figure which one of those scenarios is more likely, and which is something fabricated specifically to get the attention of gullible Christians on a subject where the original documents are in German and hard to find.
I’m not interested in speculation. I want cold, hard facts. If you can’t back up your so-called quotes, then this conversation is over.
I'd buy that except for the problem of the uncaused first cause. Did the universe bring itself into existence? A universe that created itself or that has always existed seems highly unnatural to me, even supernatural. I'd rather have a natural universe and a supernatural God who created it, than a universe that doesn't obey the basic laws of nature -- like causality -- and no God. In other words, you can either have a mythical God or a mythical universe. I prefer the former. To me the great paradox of religion is that it actually preserves the possibility of an unfailingly rational, law-obeying universe by heaping the opposite qualities onto God. God defies reason so the universe can be reasonable.
Just sayin!
Perhaps you should remember this line the next time you post revelation or scripture or religious belief as "cold, hard facts."
Last week, a German court sentenced a 55-year old Lutheran pastor to one year in jail for "Volksverhetzung" (incitement of the people) because he compared the killing of the unborn in contemporary Germany to the holocaust... Pastor Johannes Lerle compared the killing of the unborn to the killing of the Jews in Auschwitz during the Second World War. On 14 June, a court in Erlangen ruled that, in doing so, the pastor had "incited the people" because his statement was a denial of the holocaust of the Jews in Nazi-Germany. Hence, Herr Lerle was sentenced to one year in jail. Earlier, he had already spent eight months in jail for calling abortionists "professional killers" -- an allegation which the court ruled to be slanderous because, according to the court, the unborn are not humans. Other German courts convicted pro-lifers for saying that "in abortion clinics, life unworthy of living is being killed," because this terminology evoked Hitler's euthanasia program, which used the same language. In 2005, a German pro-lifer, Gunter Annen, was sentenced to 50 days in jail for saying "Stop unjust [rechtswidrige] abortions in [medical] practice," because, according to the court, the expression "unjust" is understood by laymen as meaning illegal, which abortions are not. Volksverhetzung is a crime which the Nazis often invoked against their enemies and which contemporary Germany also uses to intimidate homeschoolers.
Wheee!
Still no links. I’ve searched and searched and I can’t find anything other than innuendo in the English language press. If he’s a holocaust denier then he deserves to be condemned for it. But I refuse to condemn a man before the evidence is clear.
You are as dishonest as the day is long. And I’m still waiting for you Darwinist numbskulls to show that Pastor Lerle is being put into prison for holocaust denial (and not for his public opposition to abortion). As I have already said, I have searched the English language press and I can’t find anything substantive about his so-called holocaust denial. I have even attempted to use translation software, but it translates word for word and is very difficult to understand. What I have been able to find is a bunch of unsubstantiated innuendo issued by the Church of Darwin. So if you have German to English translations demonstrated that this guy is legitimately being convicted and sent to prison for holocaust denial (as opposed to his public comparison of abortion to the holocaust), feel free to post them in your reply.
As the left successfully suppresses Christianity, the head-choppers are moving in. Got news for the left. The left with its decadence will the first bunch to discover that their heads and their bodies are in different rooms and that they’re on jihadi TV.
How do you know?
And I’m still waiting for you Darwinist numbskulls to show that Pastor Lerle is being put into prison for holocaust denial (and not for his public opposition to abortion).
First, let me thank you for your Christlike attitude. Secondly, here is an article discussing the conviction.
I have even attempted to use translation software, but it translates word for word and is very difficult to understand.
Ok, so you're saying you can't understand the articles discussing this, yet you're so sure that I'm wrong that you can call myself and others liars? Don't you think that's a little premature?
I translated the above page through several sources. The gist of it appears to be he was convicted for minimizing the severity of the Holocaust by denying that millions were exterminated in concentration camps. He claims that modern Germany is worse than Germany under Hitler because according to him Hitler did not exterminate the Jews, while modern Germans allow abortion. This isn't really noted in the articles covering this, nor is it listed as a reason for his arrest.
Here is an exerpt of the charges against him:
The accusing written different writings and handbills, which it among other things as an Domain owner of the Bruexer STR. 25 in 91052 attaining out, over which InterNet, anyhow starting from that 23.08.2006 up to 17.01.2007 under www.johannes lerle.de, made accessible. In the InterNet by the accusing among other things the writings were placed:"again Christian pursuit in Germany"
and
"was Jesus Christ a Volksverhetzer?"
The InterNet side "again Christian pursuit in Germany" contains among other things under number 6. "monopoly on Marxist criminal ideology and on ideology-conditioned stupidity" the following text passages:
..., since the people menschentoetungen in the nut/mother body are rated likewise as "legal vocational task" like at that time alleged injustice of Auschwitz; ...Today in Germany of the Bundestag and of the courts is specified, what science is. Like that it is obvious that in Auschwitz an incomprehensibly large number (is however constantly changed) was killed by humans in gaskammern. Who contradicts that publicly, one locks up, so as if we would live in the Soviet Union.
... Even its was denied to a pensioner doctor title already acquired, because he wrote a book concerning the gaskammern and crematoria forbidden in the meantime in Auschwitz. The fact that even a doctor title was denied proves compellingly that in the science enterprise long any high priests of a but faith replace both the Glaeubigen and other real scientists out-bitten and by technically incompetent anti-Christian ideologists.
But like a lie also through still so frequent repeating to the truth does not become, then a but faith does not become by the fact the science that it is spread from the universities...
The InterNet side "was Jesus Christ a Volksverhetzer?" contains the among other things following text passages:
The genocide of the national socialists is in the meantime clearly history. To punish denying the same, meant, to lock up humans because of spreading of a politically unkorrekten historical picture. It cannot be denied nevertheless that our past views are interspersed with strong lies over the Nazis. Thus I learned in the 60's in the school that the Nazis manufactured soap from human bones and that from the skin by passengers of the KZ beech forest lamp screens would have been manufactured. Many American soldiers had seen gaskammern in the KZ Dachau even with own eyes. But it does not fit the today's historiography according to which on German soil no humans in gaskammern died. In order to hold the number from six million to, the number of the dead ones in the gaskammern of the occupied areas increased. Thus four million in Auschwitz died. However this number is in the meantime again in sinking, whereby the appearance of a "front straightening" develops. With the inconceivably large number of four million the question, like this number with some laws of nature (e.g. with the characteristics of the discharger from means cyclone B, arises the size of the gaskammern, the duration of a gasification including the necessary ventilation of the gaskammern, the capacity of the incinerators as well as the unsettled whereabouts of the 15000 tons of ash from the burn of the corpses) compatible is. And this question has also a theological dimension. We know that Jesus Christ in its goettlichen omnipotence jumped over itself with its miracles repeated over the laws of nature. Also could the devil jump over itself just like Christ sovereign over the laws of nature, when he arranged the enterprise of the gaskammern?As proof for the gaskammern the confession of the commander of camp Hoess is considered. This was brought however by British torture specialists. Received torture confessions from the time of the witch illusion, which likewise admitted us laws of nature contradict, it does not apply for us nevertheless also as proof for the fact that witches can fly e.g. on brooms by air. Why does one believe the torture confessions of Hoess, while from the time of the witch illusion is naturally not believed to the confessions? Why so far ever wasn't a former KZ prisoner, who was transferred of a wrong statement, punished because of perjury?
Tourists could visit the original gas chambers in Auschwitz. Only since then an American rogue a gesteinsbrocken had stolen, which did not contain increased values at Eisenzyanid, became tacitly from the original gas chambers reconstructions. The fact that from original gas chambers reconstructions became tacit, proves thus compellingly that we were deceived also over Auschwitz.
With as many peep and to deceit - so one should mine - would have the Zweiflern at the gaskammern at least in the Basic Law the articles 5, paragraph 3 fixed liberty of the science, research and teachings to be entitled. But after one "is conscious of the" Recht"sprechung of the Federal Constitutional Court or did not prove untrue factual statement not enclosure by the protection of the liberty of opinion", to which "denying Jew pursuit in the third realm belongs" (judgement of 13.4.94, BVerfGE 90, 241, I S 247 u. 249). If a Leugner of the gaskammern in a criminal procedure places a proof request, then this is rejected. Because there would be there nothing to prove. The gaskammern in Auschwitz are obvious.
In former times it was considered as obvious that the sun turns around the earth. It could be not possibly that at the beginning a lie stood, comparably with the lie over the gaskammern in Dachau; that this lie became then only by constant repeating the obviousness? Could it be not possible that therefore all humans are convinced of the gaskammern in Auschwitz, because everyone is moved by the same propaganda lies? Could it be not possible that we do not doubt the Historizitaet of the gaskammern, because all by the Basic Law-adverse (art. 5, exp. l GG) censorship the special arguments of the Holocaustleugner are hidden to us? Could it be not possible that we do not come due to this stupefying on the thought that we moved only a component of one of "Jewish" Meinungsmachern the people be could? And if we move with this people, then we have a difference in thinking to nobody. Could that be possibly the cause for the fact that we are so safe that there were gaskammern in Auschwitz? In former times it was general opinion that the earth is certain. Because nobody had seen, how this moves. Only the sun moves around the earth. Are we possibly not therefore of the obviousness of the gaskammern so felsenfest convinced, because propaganda lies move our all thinking in the same way, how the earth rotation our bodies moved? To reconstruct, the intellectual capacity of the today's judges seems to make excessive demands of such high-scholarly trains of thought likewise, as the argumentation of the Galileo Galilei made excessive demands of the judges of its time.
It seems to make excessive demands of only. More probable it is however that against better knowledge deliberately the right is constantly bent. Because against constantly repeated propaganda lies are not by any means independent judges... "
In these text passages the accusing places consciously the injustice acts committed under the National Socialist despotism in relation to the Jewish population, in particular with reference to the strengthened iurisdiction, which judges a relevant proof collection because of "obviousness" as redundant, in agreement, plays down these at least.
Thus that the accusing made these text passages publicly accessible, he justified also the danger at the same time that thereby the public peace is disturbed. Because these articles are suitable to disturb the safety feeling and the confidence into public right security in particular the Jewish fellow citizens sensitively.
The accusing is accused of therefore,
in two cases an action of the kind in a way, which is, designated committed under the rule of the national socialism, in § 6 exp. l of the people penal code, suitable, of disturbing the public peace to have publicly denied or play down,
punishable as
Incitement of the masses in two tatmehrheitlichen cases in accordance with §§ 130 Abs. 3, 53 StGB.
This document is linked to from the news story and is on his web page here under "Criminal Procedure".
We’re following in the footsteps of Canada and Europe with our own Hate Crimes legislation. This is disgusting, not to mention, communism.
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