Pendleton Marines investigated in alleged killings (NEW CASE)

N C Times ^ | 30 June 2007 | MARK WALKER

[radar101]

NORTH COUNTY ---- A federal agency is investigating whether Camp Pendleton Marines shot and killed a group of prisoners in the city of Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004, according to several military and legal sources.

The sources told the North County Times that the Naval Criminal Investigative Service probe centers on whether five to 10 Marines violated the laws of war.

"They have interviewed about 20 people so far and some have been read their rights," a source with direct knowledge of the probe said Friday.

Under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the killing of a captured enemy combatant who does not present a threat is considered murder.

Some of those being questioned are no longer in the Marine Corps, and at least one has hired a private defense attorney who specializes in military law, sources said. Because of the sensitivity of the matter, the five sources who spoke with the newspaper agreed to do so on the condition that they not be named.

The Marines are believed to have been involved in the deaths of as many as eight people who were captured during one of the largest battles of the Iraq war, according to the sources.

Questions the sources said that they could not immediately answer include whether the Iraqis had been declared prisoners, whether any or all were bound in any way and where specifically the slayings occurred.

The incident reportedly took place on or about Nov. 10, 2004, three days after the U.S. launched a major assault in Fallujah, an Anbar province city in western Iraq that at the time was under insurgent control.

One of the Marines has said that the troops believed they were carrying out the orders of their commanders when the insurgents were shot, according to one source.

A Marine Corps public affairs officer referred questions to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service in Washington, D.C.

Agency spokesman Ed Buice, who was presented with questions reflecting the essence of what the newspaper had been told, said Friday that no one would comment on the report. The Department of the Navy law enforcement agency is composed of civilian investigators who are not under Marine Corps control.

The sources said the Fallujah investigation arose as a result of the ongoing prosecution of three Camp Pendleton enlisted Marines charged with murder in the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians in the city of Haditha on Nov 19, 2005. Four officers face charges of dereliction of duty for failing to fully investigate the deaths at Haditha.

In another ongoing Iraqi death case, five of eight Camp Pendleton troops have pleaded guilty for their roles in the abduction and shooting of a retired Iraqi policeman in April 2006. Three defendants in that incident face trial this summer.

None of the men being prosecuted in the Haditha or Hamdania cases are subjects of the Fallujah investigation, a source said.

The battle for Fallujah was one of the major fights of the Iraq war that came after the insurgency took control of the city after U.S. forces left it in April of that year.

On Nov. 6, 2004, a main group of troops from Camp Pendleton's 3rd Battalion, 1st and 5th Marine Regiments, along with supporting Marine units and U.S. Army forces, massed and launched an assault to take back the city the next day.

Intense fighting took place during the next week with the final resistance cleared by late December. Several Camp Pendleton Marines were later honored with awards such as the Navy Cross for valorous actions during the fighting.

Ninety-five U.S. servicemen were killed during the fight for the city and more than 600 were wounded. An estimated 1,350 insurgents were killed and an additional 1,000 captured, according to military authorities.

A movie about the battle, titled "No True Glory: The Battle for Fallujah," based on a book written by Bing West is scheduled for release next year.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, current commander of the I Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton and head of Marine forces throughout the Middle East, is portrayed in the movie by actor Harrison Ford. Mattis helped lead the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and was one of the top commanders at Fallujah.

Contact staff writer Mark Walker at (760) 740-3529 or mlwalker@nctimes.com.

[sgtbono2002]

I guess their Haditha case is going in the toilet and they need another .

Amazing what some people will do to satisfy liberals.

[GovernmentShrinker]

They need to investigate these things. The Mahmoudiya case was very real, and we lose our credibility if routinely sweep these things under the rug. I hope it turns out that neither these Marines nor their commander did anything wrong, but it sure didn’t turn out that way with Mahmoudiya. “Civilian” is a very fuzzy concept in this neck of the woods, so in this sort of case, our servicepeople need to be given the benefit of doubt.

[panthermom]

Well, I’m just a civilian but I have to tell ya, this is nuts. My son wants to be a Marine, with this kind of nonsense I surely don’t want him joining. I am all for the war on terror. I believe we need to fight these terrorists but by fight I mean kill them or capture them. The Marines are taking a lot of heat for doing what they are trained to do. I have a real problem sending these guys over there if they are going to have to fight both the enemy and then fight the enemy from within as well.

[MizSterious]

That was my assessment, too. I’m about to go out on a limb and say, if you’re not going to let our guys fight a war (as opposed to being representatives for Miss Manners or something), then please, bring them home.

[Cricket24]

I think we should drop one big bomb over there and kill them all. They are never going to change. I feel sorry for the women and children but we would never have won WWII if we worried about every person that was killed.
Sorry if this is cold hearted but this political correctness and investigating everyone who is killed in this war is going to get us KILLED!
Am I the only one who feels this way?

[sheana]

You don’t take people who are trained to break things and kill people and turn them into policmen.
That is what our government is trying to do with our servicemen.

[RedRover]

Here we go again...

[BnBlFlag]

I’ve had it! The ridiculous ROE these Marines are trying to fight under only gurantees defeat and results in useless deaths of our Troops. Our guys are dying for nothing just like Vietnam. Fighting and dying for unmotivated Muslims who neither understand nor desire Liberty. Just another no win Politically Correct War.
Bring ‘em Home now.
(In the meantime our Borders are still wide open).

[panthermom]

That is exactly the way I feel. I support our troops. If the government is not going to support them then send them home.

[BnBlFlag]

gurantees = guarantees

[JeeperFreeper]

JAGs and NCIS ride again. It’ll be another media fiasco without any solid evidence other than urban combat is as deadly as it gets. And surprise, war is confusing.

[panthermom]

Not only are they trying to make them policemen but social workers as well.

My mind cannot wrap around what we are doing. These are savages that we are fighting. They thrive on death and destruction and yet we expect our guys to tiptoe around them. There is no amount of sympathy, kindness or goodwill that will change those facts. They are ruthless and evil to the core.

My kids have always kind of been engaged as far as politics and this war goes. My brother fought in Afghanistan and we have 2 very close friends whose sons are Marines right now. While my one son would like to be a Marine, his brother is so down on Pres. Bush because he thinks we should just make the whole region a parking lot. The thing that really gets him is the Palestinian children being taught to blow themselves up. He says it will never end, get rid of them all. They raise their kids to hate and kill, putting them out of their misery is the easiest way to handle it.

[lilycicero]

None of the men being prosecuted in the Haditha or Hamdania cases are subjects of the Fallujah investigation, a source said.

That would be stink on rotten if a Marine was charged in different battles. I think the Marines should be allowed to borrow against their SGLI's for defenese expenses.

[lilycicero]

Defense. You know what I meant.

[sheana]

Now, now.....Islam is a religion of peace.

Sorry, I just couldn’t help myself. ;) You are right. If I had a son I would forbid him to join any arm of the service. What they are doing is pure lunacy.

[connetquotrd]

The NCIS has been leaking this story for weeks - they almost got NBC to run a story but the network canceled their piece at the last minute.

[Dick Vomer]

this is exactly what the libs want.

to destroy the Marine Corps.

F$ck them, F#ck the JAG and F#ck the NCIS....

I am so p#ssed that I can't even put down in words what I'd like to do with the ch#cken sh#t lawyers involved in this cr@p.

Who is letting these needle d#cked lawyers loose on the Marines?

Guess what, people die in war. War is bad. Anybody that thinks there are real "rules" in war are living in a Thorazine depleted world.

The justice that is meted out in combat has nothing to do with "Law and Order" "JAG", or any other bullsh#t TV show.

The enemy is using our institutions to destroy us as are the liberals.

It's in writing in the Al-Quiada internet text/manuals that have been circulated.

All deaths will be treated as criminal cases from now on.

I would last about 2 hours as MEU commander. After the first one of these cases was brought up on my men, I'd direct JAG to assign an investigator and lawyer to each assault team with a notebook and pencil as their primary and secondary weapon.

Every patrol would have in the lead vehicle a lawyer and investigator, every MOUT mission would have lawyers for each assault team.... they would have body armor, pencil and paper (yellow legal pad).

That way I could check and see if my men were following the ROE.

After the first one of these little b#tches got torched or blown to bits then the mommy and daddy's of the JAG Corps would call their Congressperson or Sec. Navy and I'd be in Leavenworth.

Where are all the Army prosecutions???? That's right... they only get prosecuted for rape and murdering girls and their parents.... they don't do that nasty stuff like CQB where you get your face in the sh#t. Or they've got their lips firmly applied to the libs and the lawyers rear ends.

Maybe if the Marines let women join the guys for boot camp, vote for neat little black berets, and allow gays to openly serve in the Corps then this would stop......

sorry for the rant.

Now back to our regular programming.

[sheana]

well let me join your rant.

this is exactly what the libs want.
to destroy the Marine Corps.

And where is our brave CIC and the people in his administration who should KNOW what war is and make sure it is fought correctly? Oh yeah he is bending over for the liberals and joining them in many of their causes.

I say either let our guys fight this war to win or bring them home. As far as I am concerned there is not one Iraqi worth the death of even one of our brave soldiers. I really don’t care about their freedom or democracy, or whatever the word du jour is this week, anymore.

Our government, Republicans and Democrats have soured me on this war.

[Girlene]

Because of the sensitivity of the matter, the five sources who spoke with the newspaper agreed to do so on the condition that they not be named. Let me get this straight, it's so sensitive, they have five leakers?

Questions the sources said that they could not immediately answer include whether the Iraqis had been declared prisoners, whether any or all were bound in any way and where specifically the slayings occurred.

So let me get another thing straight, that paragraph makes it sound like the five leakers don't even know if the dead Iraqis were killed as prisoners, or killed in the Battle of Fallujah.

Nothing like throwing a bunch of accusations out there to see if any have legs.

The incident reportedly took place on or about Nov. 10, 2004... Well, Happy Birthday, Marine Corps! /sarc