Posted on 07/07/2007 8:00:14 AM PDT by Ol' Sparky
Now praying gets 7 Christians arrested
Cops call holding Bibles while lying prostrate 'disturbing peace'
By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com
Christians have been arrested recently at "gay" festivals for nothing more than having a protest sign that is "wider than their torso," but now police have gone even further, targeting Bible-carrying ministers for praying on public property and for standing on a public sidewalk near a "gay" festival.
One of the new cases comes from Elmira, N.Y., where police arrested seven Christians who went into a public park where a "gay" fest was beginning and started to pray, faces down, while holding their Bibles.
They were cited for "disturbing the peace," and Assistant Police Chief Mike Robertson told WND that the seven are accused of a "combination" of allegations under that statute, which includes the "intent" to cause a public inconvenience, any "disturbance" of a meeting of persons, obstructing vehicular or pedestrian traffic, or taking part in "any act that serves no legitimate purpose."
The second such case arose in Wichita, Kan., where police arrested Spirit One Christian Center Pastor Mark Holick, who had received permission earlier from officers to be on the public sidewalk adjacent to the park where the festival was occurring but then was arrested doing exactly that.
Julian Raven, a street preacher, told WND his group of seven assembled to pray for three hours the night before Elmira's recent "pride" festival in promotion of the homosexual lifestyle.
"We have a legal right to be at an event held in a public square. We're not a hate group," he said. "We're Christians and we're going to be there to pray."
He said he contacted police, who told him he had no free speech rights in the public park.
"The female officer, she said, 'You're not going to cross the street. You're not going to enter the park and you're not going to share your religion with anybody in this park,'" he told WND.
"When she said that, for the first time in my life as a Christian, I felt now my freedom of speech is threatened or challenged," he said. "I was being told I could not share my religion with anybody in that park."
Raven said he told the officer "she was violating the Constitution that she had sworn to uphold, and she was very agitated and adamant, and couldn't look me straight in the eye."
Raven asked for the justification for such a threat and was not given a response.
He said his team of Christians then went into the park, holding Bibles over their heads to signify their subservience to God's Word, and lay on their faces to pray.
Within three minutes, police officers had put handcuffs on the seven, to the cheers of the homosexual crowd, he said.
He said a court date is pending for the seven July 23.
"I have the highest respect for the police officers. They have a very difficult job to do. But we were treated unfairly in a public setting. This was a hasty show of force. It was not called for," he said.
He said if the situation is left unchallenged, the city of Elmira will be in the position of being able to control the content of people's messages in a lawful assembly – or even thoughts if they are nearby.
"We didn't say boo to a goose, still we were arrested," he said.
The local newspaper reported the arrests came just "moments" after Elmira Mayor John Tonello delivered a speech "celebrating diversity."
And the actions prompted some immediate criticism from newspaper readers.
"I was appalled and disgusted by the gay stories strewn through the … paper. … What was even more disturbing was the way the city acted. Since when is it illegal to sit on the ground in a public park and recite Bible verses? Are they not protected by the same Constitution that allows gay people to have their gay pride event. These Bible thumpers had their constitutional right to free speech and assembly trampled on by the city. They should not have been arrested," said Kevin Raznoff.
Robertson told WND the Christians "certainly" have a right to assemble, but not on public property when there's an "organized" event there. Asked repeatedly about how the "disturbance" statute relates to First Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech, he did not answer.
"Obviously, they caused a disruption to an event that was taking place," he said.
But Raven confirmed to WND the seven Christians did not approach a single person, did not speak to anyone and did not even make any audible statements until after they were arrested.
Pastor Holick's case in Wichita was even more drastic. He had gone, with a team from his church, to pass out flyers and pray at a recent "pride" festival held there.
He had checked with the police department and was told, "The sidewalk is your friend."
"Upon arriving we began to set up," he said. "Immediately, I was approached by WPD and told that we could not go into the park (a public park mind you where everyone else – except the Christians – was allowed in) and that we could not be on the sidewalk on that side of the street but that we could go to the other side of the street.
"In other words, one side of the street is open to Christians but the public park and the public sidewalk next to the park is not," he said.
But then Holick was arrested within about four minutes of his arrival.
"It is obvious that the WPD did not keep their word and that they wanted to arrest as quickly as possible. The First Amendment … was cast aside like so much garbage," he said.
"The sin is 'coming out' further and further and the church is now being pushed further and further back inside the four walls of the church building; we are the ones that are seen as 'the trouble makers.' The police arrest the Christians and allow all manner of perversion to flaunt itself in the streets of Wichita. And we the church … well … I'm not sure we care," he said.
Police alleged that they asked Holick five times to "leave" the festival, even though he never purchased the required admission fee or went in.
As WND reported , Holick already had been targeted by the Internal Revenue Service for the moral statements he posted on the church's sign.
The notice he got from the IRS warned him about putting his Christian beliefs on the sign, and he responded that he would continue to preach the Word of God.
Just a week earlier, WND reported police in St. Petersburg, Fla., arrested five Christians for carrying signs "wider than their torsos" outside an officially designated protest area at that city's homosexual festival.
Pastor Billy Ball, Assistant Pastor Doug Pitts, Frankie Primavera and Josh Pettigrew, all of Faith Baptist Church in Primrose, Ga., were arrested after leaving a small area set aside by city officials for protest activities. Bill Holt, of Lighthouse Baptist Church in Jefferson, Ga., was also taken into custody.
According to Lighthouse Pastor Kevin Whitman, the five men were told by police their signs were not allowed outside the protest area because they were wider than their torsos. When the men refused to put them away, they were arrested for violating a controversial city ordinance that governs permitted events.
As WND reported, St. Petersburg officials, following disturbances at a previous homosexual pride festival, implemented rules governing outdoor events that set aside "free speech zones," where protesters are allowed.
The resulting ordinance came under fire by the American Civil Liberties Union and the Alliance Defense Fund for being too broad. It allows the city to create prior restraints of speech on an event-by-event basis, with virtually no predictable limits. It also criminalizes certain free speech behavior around public events and authorizes the police to enforce breaches of permits – the penalty for such breaches being arrest.
Our country has completely lost it’s moral compass.
One and the same to the PC Police.
but but but...so many posters here have told me there IS no Christian persecution in this country! Besides, since none of this affected me personally, then it surely can’t exist!
It looks like we need a permit to pray.
All they have to do is claim they are “Muslim illegal immigrants from Mexico” and they can get away with anything...
This country is in deep trouble, all in the name of “tolerance and diversity”...
Someone needs to file suit on the PD, the city, and any public works department in charge of the park. I’m not all about lawsuits and such, but if someone can sue for the right to have the NAMBLA website protected under free speech of the First Amendment, then why shouldn’t law-abiding, good, honest, Christians have the same protection? Sometimes I wish we lived in the 1700s so we could “petition” the government with refusal to pay taxes and with muskets. But now, we’d be labeled “rebels” and arrested for daring to challenge the government. ARRRGGGG!!!!
ping
Seems like a good time to pay Islamberg a visit.
dont worry....the ACLU will come to ther rescue (sarc)
Well at least one can see what “Rights” for sodomites really means.
It is all in the “name” of tolerance and diversity, in reality it is anything but. It is a continuation of the radical left’s decades old effort to tear down Western civilization’s “established institutions”.
A foreshadowing of what is to come, if we do not act, and act swiftly, to reclaim our country.
Didn't God say woe unto those kind of people?
yes God said that homosexuality was an abomination
Nobody hates like the tolerant, diverse, homosexual deviant left.
We are seeing the beginning of what will ultimately be armed conflict over First Amendment rights of Bible teaching churches.
God is wider than anyone’s torso.
Did you just call God fat?
L
Those fags are going tobe awfull sorry when they find out what will replace Christianity.
Allah fubar
They’ll be hanging from cranes just like in Iran.
Matthew 6:
5”And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
On reading the the first paragraph I thought this was happening in Saudi Arabia..!
If they had been dressed in white pajamas and were carrying Korans, everything would have been peachy.
The Christians should get permission in writing, of where they can and cannot pray during these demonstrations . Doing it over the phone is only asking for trouble . Get it in writing , obey it, and if there’s a problem call a lawyer .
It simply sounds like the police are trying to keep two opposing groups separated to avoid conflict or violence .
So much for the Freedom of Speech.
Each city in this article is going to lose in court. And it is going to cost the taxpayers big time money when they hand out awards to theses Christians. I just wish I had an opportunity to be involved, especially the one where they were arrested becasue they were praying. That one is a salm-dunk against the city.
True - and I have seen prayer used very ostentatiously in public demonstrations. I have also seen people in pray in public so that it was if they were alone with God there.
There is a passage from the OT that commands the prophet to call on the evildoers to repent - if he does not, the condemnation falls on him. Whether that command is specific to the prophet could be debated, I suppose.
Mrs VS
First the morals go, then the freedom goes, then the void is filled with something new, ISLAM!
Did you just call God fat?
Heaven is His throne and the earth is His foot stool...
Is the problem praying? Or loud disruptive heckling that happens to take the form of prayer?
Sign of the times. Soon Christians will have to go underground to pray like the early Christians facing persecution.
Good question . It’s obvious that the police are just trying to keep two opposing groups separated ,as they would at any event , for the purpose of keeping the peace .
And very quickly approaching the point of no return.
I bet if I actually watched network news, I would have saw all of this covered.
This is simple. Just make sure you have a couple crippled muslims with “koran hates homos” signs and “allah fubar homos” and not one glove will be placed on you. You might also seek diverse skin tone crowd pleaser escorts. Wave a few Mexican flags and chant anti-US slogans now and again and you can have your assemblage anywhere in the good ol USA.
If they were pointed east and praying to Allah, it would have been okay...
I think he meant "big-bones"..REALLY big bones! :)
They were not, as the verse refers to, loudly and publicly braying prayers for the sole reason to attract attention to themselves and try to look righteous and sanctimonious.
There is a big difference between what the Christians were doing in the park and what that Scripture is talking about. You're not the first to try to use that Scripture to try to tell Christians they shouldn't pray publicly.
It won't fly.
Remain steadfast in your faith in our Lord during these days of judgement. The time will come where those who practice evil will pay with their souls.
Me too. And since the Christians in the article weren't loudly engaging in "forcing their beliefs" on everyone who came to the park, unlike the homosexuals, it is absolutely certain that their rights were violated and denied them by the Elmira city government.
Would their actions bring Christ any closer to those they were protesting or those who were charged with protecting the protestors or even those that were observing?
Or were their actions designed to vent their anger and bring attention to themselves?
Were these folks honoring God by their actions?
And maybe they felt led by God to go to the park and pray for those who are looking at spending eternity in hell.
Nobody knows and it doesn't matter. The fact is, they had the right to be there, they had the right to pray, they were not bothering anyone, and they were not, unlike the homosexuals, forcing their lifestyles and beliefs on anybody, (including parents with children) who happened to come into the park.
And they certainly were not doing what you attempted to imply with that Scripture you posted.
Even if they were quietly praying (and remember quiet is a relative term if however Silent prayer was used then we remove the sound level factor entirely) consider one can also "disrupt the peace" by obstructing traffic, both vehicular and pedestrian.
IF they placed themselves in an area that would have obstructed people moving about, then the police can and probably will remove them from the area and place them under arrest. It would make no matter if they were praying or singing campfire songs.
If however they had placed themselves near the affair but not obstructing traffic and were engaged in quiet/silent prayer then they have a case for the courts.
>> Now praying gets 7 Christians arrested
I was expecting this story to involve a Middle East region.
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