Iran: Convicted Adulterer Stoned to Death

Guardian UK ^ | 7/10/07 | Guardian UK

[b4its2late]

Tolerant bunch

[mountainbunny]

22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
From the Book of Deuteronomy.

[Vinny]

I don’t think the form of capital punishment is the problem.

Hanging isn’t a very sanitized form of capital punishment, we’re you outraged when Saddam was hung?

Would you be outraged if Saddam was stoned?

And as for Adultery being a Capital Crime, I haven’t heard any moral or non-moral, for that matter, arguments proving that Adultery should not be a capital crime besides the ones based on emotion.

Why shouldn’t adultery be a capital crime or jaywalking for that matter? I'm being facetious here but adultery is not a capital crime in most people’s minds because we don’t value faithfulness, vows, or marriage but if someone kills someone we accept murder as a capital offense because we value human life just not marriage.

[Max in Utah]

How much pot do you have to smoke to get stoned to death?

I think it's impossible... you'd pass out long before you got a lethal dose.

But then, you knew that, right? :)

[redstates4ever]

Stoned to death for adultry.

Do you hear that, O liberals with your dog-like morals?

Do you hear that, Hollyweirdos?

Nah, of course you don't.

[Waverunner]

I was thinking of Spicoli in Fast Times, Worked around way too much machinery connected to flying thingies to play around.

[Dajjal]

Shari’ah bump

[monday]

“Hanging isn’t a very sanitized form of capital punishment, we’re you outraged when Saddam was hung?”

It is compared to stoning, even if done wrong, it is more humane than stoning. You should move to Iran if you value marriage more than life, and think death by torture is acceptable. One thing is for certain. You don’t belong in any civilized country. BTW there is no apostrophe in were.

[Jack Hammer]

The same thing happens in the West all the time, except that here people get stoned and THEN commit adultery.

[Doctor Don]

Hey Iran nut-jobs, save some of those really big stones for one of our philanderers............Klinton, by name!

[Vinny]

Again: Would you be outraged if Saddam Hussein was stoned???

Capital punishment whether it’s stoning, hanging, electrocution, or lethal injection is not torture. It may cause pain but that's not the primary reason capital punishment is enforced. The primary reason is to put to death the criminal. Nice try but the issue is not whether someone values life more than marriage. You can value both. The issues are what is valued in a soceity, what crimes constitutes a capital offense and why?

Laws reflect and punishments for breaking those laws tell you what is valued in a soceity. Why shouldn't adultery be a capital offense? Is adultery even wrong to you? Try not to name call when you answer the questions. I'm just asking. I don't think anybody, outside of being a Christian, can give me a sound reason why adultery should not be a capital offense.

[death2tyrants]

“I’m just asking. I don’t think anybody, outside of being a Christian, can give me a sound reason why adultery should not be a capital offense.”

Because the gov has no business injecting itself into people’s personal lives. Besides, this is Iran. The only thing this guy is probably guilty of is trying to take his daughter to see a soccer match or something. Hideous dictatorships have a history of falsely charging and killing their own people.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Well, they'll stone ya when you're trying to be so good, They'll stone ya just a-like they said they would. They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to go home. Then they'll stone ya when you're there all alone. But I would not feel so all alone, Everybody must get stoned. Well, they'll stone ya when you're walkin' 'long the street. They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to keep your seat. They'll stone ya when you're walkin' on the floor. They'll stone ya when you're walkin' to the door. But I would not feel so all alone, Everybody must get stoned. They'll stone ya when you're at the breakfast table. They'll stone ya when you are young and able. They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to make a buck. They'll stone ya and then they'll say, "good luck." Tell ya what, I would not feel so all alone, Everybody must get stoned. Well, they'll stone you and say that it's the end. Then they'll stone you and then they'll come back again. They'll stone you when you're riding in your car. They'll stone you when you're playing your guitar. Yes, but I would not feel so all alone, Everybody must get stoned. Well, they'll stone you when you walk all alone. They'll stone you when you are walking home. They'll stone you and then say you are brave. They'll stone you when you are set down in your grave. But I would not feel so all alone, Everybody must get stoned.

[Vinny]

“Besides, this is Iran. The only thing this guy is probably guilty of is trying to take his daughter to see a soccer match or something. Hideous dictatorships have a history of falsely charging and killing their own people.”
_________________________________________________

I agree.

“Because the gov has no business injecting itself into people’s personal lives.”
__________________________________________________

I think it depends on why they are injecting themselves into people’s personal lives. For example, rape or child molestation. The government should intrude into the rapist’s and pedophile’s life. Don’t you think?

You just don’t think the government should intrude into the adulterer’s life?

Nowadays, most people believe capital punishment should only be used for murderers. It seems Just, life for life, an adulterer hasn’t taken anyone’s life.

I’m just sick of the knee-jerk reactions that a stoning of adulterer or homosexual gets. No one explains on a rational let alone a reasonable basis on why it so repulsive.

All I can think of is that these types of sexual acts are either embraced or tolerated by their defenders or that capital punishment for these types of sexual acts appear to “not fit the crime” since no human life was taken in the performance of these acts and therefore, capital punishment is only to be used when human life is unjustly and deliberately taken by another.

[odds]

Regarding your comment # 31:

You have raised some very interesting, but complex points as far as Iran under the ruling mullahs is concerned.

1. Whether capital punishment, in general, should exist is debatable and I don’t think it is the sole issue here. Personally, I don’t believe in a death verdict/sentence for adultery.

2. Regardless of capital punishment and death sentence (as ultimate verdicts), the process of arriving at such verdict and the method by which the death sentence is carried out are equally important.

Are you aware that stoning prior to mullah rule was not part of the law in Iran? Bear in mind that I’m referring to 3000 year plus history of Iran, not just the Shah’s era. Do you also realize that the act of stoning is often performed by a group of people including children? Stoning is in fact torture which leads to death. It is a slow and painful death/execution. Stones used to hit the person must be of certain shape and size. Using big stones that can lead to instant death are against the Islamic law (sharia) in Iran.

Moreover, the basis for stoning a person is a ritual which is practiced by muslim pilgrims visiting Mecca. It is called “stoning of the Devil/Satan”. During this ritual, pilgrims must personally look for and gather appropriate shape/size stones, bring them back to an appropriate location and begin to throw them at a pretend-to-be devil as an act of denouncing and renouncing the Devil (Satan). However, there are vast differences between stoning a pretend-to-be-devil vs. a real person.

3. The judiciary, legal system and courts, in general, in Mullah ruled Iran are absolutely dysfunctional. Two different people can be sentenced to two different punishments for exactly the same crime depending on how much each one is favored by those in charge of passing the sentence. If stoning for adultery was to be applied across the board, then many of the ruling mullahs and their cohorts should have stoned to death long ago. Not to mention that many of the articles which currently exist in Islamic government constitution are not adhered to or are generally so vague and codified that one can interpret them any way one wants to and is expedient. They are highly subjective.

4. “what is valued in a soceity, what crimes constitutes a capital offense and why?” Adultery is not valued in Iranian society, but nor is stoning. Stoning is valued and enforced by Mullahs in the society. There lies the difference. However, I don’t dispute that certain groups actually enjoy it such: Bassij thugs and those who get their kicks out of torture and killing of others. I consider them sadists and mentally unstable i.e. psychotic.

5. How do we define adultery in Mullah ruled Iran? Have you heard of temporary marriage “seegheh”? Under sharia (Islamic law in Iran) with a few words, you can become temporarily married to someone for any period of time. Women often practice it due to economic/financial hardship. Even married women, whose husbands may be unable to provide for them and the family because of drug addiction (Iran has a very high percentage of drug addicts) can be temporarily married in order to feed their family and children. Of course, “seegheh” to me is not only a legalized form of prostitution, but it can also be construed as adultery. Men in current Iran can have 4 wives at the same time. Additionally, men can have up to 12 “seegheh” i.e. concubines. Traditionally, the practice of polygamy and “seegheh” - an arab/muslim practice - are frowned upon by the mainstream in Iran and never existed in Persian society or culture, certainly not prior to Islamic laws being enforced in the society and in people’s personal lives.

In conclusion, I think your reasoning, as far as mullah ruled Iran is concerned is rather simplistic. And, I hope you will find the above informative.

[Vinny]

Thanks for the cultural lessons regarding Iran.

So b/c of subjective personal reasons, the hypocrisy of the ruling mullahs, Iran’s history prior to Khomeini?, and the corrupt/ dysfunctional legal system of present Iran you are against adultery being a capital offense.

Good valid reasons and I’m with you except your subjective personal reasons.

I would like to know what your personal reasons are for not believing adultery should be a capital offense, regardless of the corruptness you see in Iran or any other country.

[Porterville]

How much pot do you have to smoke to get “stoned to death”?

I tried it a few time in high school and college. And although I mixed the Cherrios with mustard and hotdogs with spegettio’s... I never made it to the death part.

[monday]

“....or that capital punishment for these types of sexual acts appear to “not fit the crime” since no human life was taken in the performance of these acts and therefore, capital punishment is only to be used when human life is unjustly and deliberately taken by another.”

That sums it up pretty well. See, you understood perfectly why people are against capital punishment for adultery. Killing people for non violent crimes does more damage to society than the crime does. Its very bad when your justice system damages society more than criminals do. That is the justice system of tyrants and murderers. Iran is run by tyrants and murderers.

Other examples of justice systems run by tyrants and murderers include, Mugabe’s Zimbabwe, Stalin’s Soviet Union, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, Hitler’s Germany, Kim’s North Korea, and the greatest mass murderer in history Mao Zedong’s China, and dozens of others.

Seriously, if you think adultery ought to be punished by death, you need to be willing to move to a country that practices that. If you aren’t then you are being hypocritical. The truth is that countries that have the death penalty for adultery are all brutal theocracies run by marginally insane religious fanatics. Is that what you want in a government and a justice system?

[monday]

“Again: Would you be outraged if Saddam Hussein was stoned???”

If his only crime had been adultery, absolutely. Since he was a mass murderer who routinely tortured his victims to death, stoning would have been an appropriate punishment. The trick is to fit the punishment to the crime. The bible says an eye for an eye. Are you beginning to understand?

[Vinny]

I always understood. I wondered if you understood.

This is the first time apart from your emotional outbursts that I received a valid answer to my inquiries.

All I am asking for is valid reasons on why adultery should not be a capital offense besides “I think it’s yucky”, “you’re so uncivilized”, “I hate Iran”, “the muslims are jerks”.

Those statements may all may be true but it’s irrelevant on whether adultery should or should not be a capital offense.