Did the Founding Fathers Really Get Many of Their Ideas of Liberty from the Iroquois?

HNN ^ | 7-11-05 | By Jack Rakove

[Sacajaweau]

The word savage at the time meant “no written language”. Their atrocities redefined the word.

[mylife]

I regret having not kept the old traps we grew up with.
You cannot find them today, they are not PC.
As a kid we would load up muscrat traps and slap someone on the rear with them. Yipes!

[Sacajaweau]

We found a small trap on our estate in the Southern Tier in New York....along with all kinds of horseshoes and a gorgeous 50 foot chain which was likely for hauling trees. Most of the found stuff dates from the Civil War. We’re still looking for the Old House on the property. One of these days, I’ll trip on it which is my custom.

[mylife]

There is a lot of History lingering about in the NE

[Sacajaweau]

We haven’t gotten rich yet...but we did finally find the fields of ginsing...which if we harvested would bring some bucks. Ginsing appears many times in the Colonial Documents of NY as one of the “gifts” we provided to the indians.

[mylife]

Ginseng was a major commodity back in the day.

Ginseng Sullivan
(Norman Blake)

About three miles from the batelle yard
The river curves on down
Not far south of the town depot
Sullivan’s shack was found
Up on the higher ground.

You could see him every day
Just walking down the line
With his old brown sack across his back
Long hair down behind
Speaking his worried mind.

cho: It’s a long way from the delta
To the North Georgia hills
A tote sack full of ginseng
Won’t pay my travelling bills
I’m too old to ride the rails
Or bum the road alone
So I guess I’ll never make it back to home
My muddy water Mississippi delta home.

The winters here, they get too cold
The damp it makes me ill
Can’t dig no roots in the mountain side
With the ground froze hard and still
Gotta stay at the foot of the hill.

But next summer, things turn right
The companies will pay high
I’ll make enough money to pay my bills
Bid these mountains goodbye
Then he said with a sigh:

[mylife]

I have a friend who’s brother still digs ginseng in Tennessee

[kawaii]

thanks for taking my first thread over 100 :)

[Sacajaweau]

Now find an article on Washington and the Cherry Tree. The REAL truth appears in several sources. PETA would go nuts.

Why we teach UNTRUTHS to children, I'll never know.

[Sacajaweau]

You're welcome.

I think it was Roosevelt that motivated the interest in preserving Indian History before it completely died out. I believe he said "They would have killed themselves ALL OFF if it wasn't for us.

It was probably the when and how a lot of these Sport Team names came about. It was a GOOD thing at the time. Current objectors & PC has sure turned it into the OPPOSITE of what was intended. Just plain ignorance.

[LS]

It’s silly. Even if a) the Founders gave SERIOUS consideration to the notion that non-Euros could have important thoughts about concepts of self-government, they b) would have been overwhelmed by their own voluminous readings of Locke and the other Enlightenment thinkers.

[kawaii]

some of these folks insist that the iroquois government was so great that word of it traveled back to england AND INSPIRED THE ENLIGHTENMENT.

its crazy.

[LS]

I’m sure the Iroquois had a hand in building the pyramids, too.

[nyconse]

You can not judge people from a different time with the standards one uses in modern times. It was a ‘savage’ world back then-brutal. American Indians (many different tribes) were pretty brutal to each other and to the colonists.

[ken21]

obviously the founding fathers were illiterate. they couldn’t read latin, greek, or even french.

they had no knowledge of enlighenment and economics tracts.

/s

[kawaii]

(even while living in france for 10 years...)

[Sacajaweau]

I got the definition right out of a 1789 school text which was published in Philadelphia. I have an extensive library.

[nyconse]

I don’t doubt you are correct in your definition. All I meant to say is that judging history by modern standards distorts it. You have to look at history in terms of the standards of that time.

[ABN 505]

"You can not judge people from a different time with the standards one uses in modern times. It was a ‘savage’ world back then-brutal. American Indians (many different tribes) were pretty brutal to each other and to the colonists." "Pretty brutal" is putting it mildly,Almost all the Algonquin, Iroquois, Huron, Ottawa tribes practiced cannibalism and torture was just a fun diversion until the victim died, the women excelled at torture. A tasty meal was often made by simply boiling water, cutting off the limbs of the living victim and throwing them in the pot, Many people actually saw themselves being eaten before they died of their injuries. Best book on the French and Indian wars WILDERNESS EMPIRE by Allan Eckert. Guaranteed you can't put it down.

[ABN 505]

"a drive through western new york would give it away the original five were Seneca Mohawk Cayuga Onondaga and Oneida" You are correct. The sixth Nation was the Tuscaroras who moved up from the south in the early 1700's.