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To: bilhosty
These likely voters say they trust Republicans more than Democrats on only four issues out of 13 - taxes, terrorism, moral values and illegal immigration. In each of these cases, the Republican edge isn't very substantial. And on nine other issues - ranging from health care to Iraq - Democrats outdistance Republicans by huge margins.

I don't see how there's much wiggle room for the party to change its message when those four issues are THE issues for so many IN the party.

It's not that the ideas have to change; the way of delivering them, and the way our supposedly conservative representatives BEHAVE (i.e. voting conservatively) must.

But the truly troubling (and I think accurate) part is here:

What if, in fact, we're seeing a restoration of a secular national trend toward liberalism - a preference among voters and the American populace more generally toward liberal solutions to national problems and to the Democratic Party as the repository for those solutions?

I believe this is accurate. People want the government to GIVE them stuff.

It's as simple--and as simplistic--as that. Forget self-reliance, the individual pursuit of happiness, liberty. People see the government as a way of confiscating money, and they see themselves as either trying to get money from it or KEEP money from it.

And no conservatives have been able to show people why they should BE conservative. And the illegals, and those who want what they haven't earned, are bringing this country to its knees.

HRC and those liberals who follow her into the WH will bring Soviet-style totalitarianism "for the good of The People" (and The Children), because people will see government's job as taking care of us all--which means willingly giving over their liberty to mommy government.

Forget 1984--people should be reading Brave New World. Government isn't going to take our freedoms away--we're going to give them away to government, willingly.

3 posted on 07/28/2007 3:54:54 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Pro-Life, Pro-Legal Immigration, Pro-Victory, PRO-FRED Bostonian atheist)
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To: Darkwolf377
Agreed. People want the government to take care of them unless their taxes are too high. So that mindset leaves little room for conservatives to get a hearing, except when liberals mess up things badly.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

5 posted on 07/28/2007 3:58:46 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Darkwolf377
It's not that the ideas have to change; the way of delivering them, and the way our supposedly conservative representatives BEHAVE (i.e. voting conservatively) must.
I agree with you on this but don't forget that part of the problem with our delivery is the way we are completely locked out of the MSM, which still controls most information to most people. Sorry to push a particular candidate here in this conversation of general principles, but one of the reasons I like Fred is that I think he's capable of breaking out of the quarantine area that the MSM puts all conservative messengers in. Reagan did it. He spoke over the heads of the media directly to the people. I think Fred can do it too.
8 posted on 07/28/2007 4:08:52 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: Darkwolf377

Republicans are losing elections because they have lost their base. Their ineptness during the Bill Frist years was criminal. Four years of Democratic ranting and raving and these clowns did nothing but sit on their hands.And to top it off they crawled into bed with the swimmer with that stupid amnesty bill. What we have to do is rid ourselves of these sheep and elect conservatives that have a spine. We need people in the mold of Newt Gingrich before he blew it and Tom Delay. Some lazy ass senators need to have their heads handed to them. John McCain and Lindsey Graham would be a good start.


9 posted on 07/28/2007 4:08:53 AM PDT by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: Darkwolf377

I belive that your assessment is correct.

The majority of the American people no longer want to live free,own property, be in control of their lives, or care about freedom. They want to be taken care of by the Governmentand use all the drugs that want. What they care about now is which celebrity is screwing which celebrity.

Pride in work,the right or duty [your choice of word] to defend one’s self and family, individualism, and manhood have fallen by the wayside.

The people surrendered their rights o the politicans. The men surrendered their manhood to the politicans. The politicans gave it [manhood] to the feminists. The feminists have emasculated the men.

Compared to the America that was when I was growing up, the America of 20 years from now will be a sad place. I [and probly a lot more people]am thankful that I won’t be around then.


32 posted on 07/28/2007 5:24:44 AM PDT by sport
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To: Darkwolf377
And no conservatives have been able to show people why they should BE conservative.

Exactly - where is the messaging from the Republicans about our values of individual freedom and personal responsibility. I'm inclined to think the Republicans don't do that because they are currently a coalition of 'small government' social conservatives and 'big government' social conservatives, and since there really isn't any room to create a compromise message between bigger government and smaller government, they agree to say nothing rather than alienate the other Republican side.

Libertarians were on board with Republicans when they SAID they were small government, but now that they've governed as big government along with more conservative social values than libertarians are comfortable with, most libertarians aren't aren't on board. They probably figure if they're going to have to live with bigger and bigger government anyway, they'll go with those who express similar social views. It will be very hard to win them back now that the Republicans have demonstrated their big government actions.

Personally, I'm having a really hard time with the actions of the Republicans, and I wish there were a viable small government, individual freedom party. The Constitution Party had promise a couple of years ago, but they didn't get traction. Libertarian's conceptually have the right idea, but I have yet to see a libertarian argue their position without it coming down to freedom for drugs - which is why they continue to look like the pothead party. Green Party of course is communist. So with no other options, rebuilding the republican party from the inside is really the only viable option, but it will take a long time. Probably it will be the homeschool kids from the 90's and on that do it, where they actually learned about the gift of freedom rather than the government of entitlement.

65 posted on 07/28/2007 7:34:38 AM PDT by Kay Ludlow (Free market, but cautious about what I support with my dollars)
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To: Darkwolf377

” don’t see how there’s much wiggle room for the party to change its message”

That is correct there is not much wiggle room there. We just need to do it.

But, still the message needs to worked on and we need to be giving alternatives to the Dem’s way of doing things. I think we should set up a private Health Insurance buyers Coop. yes, it would need the government to start it and transfer by law to a publicly owned coop owned by policy holders in a few years. The coop would take people health app’s and a small fee for underwriting and assign it to a like risk pool and let the companies bid on it. Since 40% of most health insurance policy premiums go for marketing and commissions that would be a way to save a significant chunk. Of course it always gets framed in whether we have nothing or socialized medicine. As a result we will one day have socialized medicine only because we refuse to do anything and choose to do nothing.


83 posted on 07/28/2007 9:24:28 AM PDT by bilhosty
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