Posted on 08/06/2007 10:02:11 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
CAMP DAVID, Md. - President Bush said Monday that with the right intelligence U.S. and Pakistan governments can take out al-Qaida leaders, and wouldn't say whether he would consult first with Pakistan before ordering U.S. forces to act on their own.
"With real actionable intelligence, we will get the job done," Bush said.
He was asked whether he would wait on permission from Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf before committing the U.S. military to move on "actionable intelligence" on the whereabouts of terrorist leaders in Pakistan. He did not answer directly.
Bush was at the presidential retreat at Camp David for two days of meetings with Afghan President Hamid Karzai. The two held talks on a rash of crises confronting Afghanistan: civilian killings, a booming drug trade and the brazen resurgence of the Taliban.
Karzai said that he and Musharraf would discuss how to tackle the problem of lawlessness and extremist hideouts along Pakistan's border area with his country.
Afghanistan has a distrustful relationship with neighboring Pakistan, yet top tribal leaders from both countries are expected to meet this week to try to lessen tensions. Musharraf and Karzai are likely to attend, with Karzai sure to bring up his concern about the flow of foreign fighters into his country from Pakistan.
Bush and Karzai put a positive spin on Afghanistan's progress since the 2001 defeat of the repressive Taliban, but they stressed that serious problems remain.
"There is still work to be done, don't get me wrong," Bush said. "But progress is being made, Mr. President, and we're proud of you."
Karzai acknowledged a resurgent Taliban but said it is not a threat to his government. Karzai is Afghanistan's first democratically elected president.
"We have a long journey ahead of us but what we have traveled so far has given us greater hope for a better future, for a better life," Karzai said at a joint news conference here with Bush.
Bush and Karzai differed noticeably in their views about Iran's influence in Afghanistan.
Karzai had said in advance of his visit to Camp David that Iran is a partner in the fight against terrorism and narcotics. "So far, Iran has been a helper," he said over the weekend.
Bush didn't agree. "I would be very cautious about whether or not the Iranian influence there in Afghanistan is a positive force," he said.
U.S. officials contend that Tehran is fomenting violence in Afghanistan by sending in weaponry such as sophisticated roadside bombs. More broadly, Bush said Iran thumbs its nose at the international community and denies its citizens the rights they deserve.
The issue of a theoretical U.S. military incursion into Pakistan is a sensitive one. Bush has said before that he would order the U.S. to act inside the Muslim-majority country if there were firm intelligence on the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden or other terrorist leaders.
Bin Laden, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, is believed to be living in the tribal border region of Pakistan. His ability to avoid capture remains a political sore spot for Bush.
But Musharraf has objected to any unilateral action by Washington.
Over the weekend, Defense Secretary Robert Gates was equally careful in describing how U.S. officials would handle such a situation.
"I think we would not act without telling Musharraf what we were planning to do," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
Bush said the leaders spent "more than a fair amount of time" talking about the fact that Afghanistan now accounts for 95 percent of the world's poppy production used to make heroin.
Profits from the drug trade are aiding the Taliban. Aggressive counter-drug proposals by some U.S. officials — including tying development aid to benchmarks such as mandatory poppy field destruction — have met fierce resistance.
"He knows full well that the United States is watching, measuring and trying to help," the president said of Karzai.
For his part, Karzai said his government in Kabul is "committed to fighting it because this evil is first hurting us."
The war in Afghanistan has largely faded from public view, with a more wrenching debate at home centered on Iraq.
Yet Afghanistan's fragility remains of paramount concern to the United States.
The deteriorating security there has been underscored by the ongoing captivity of 21 South Korean volunteers kidnapped in Afghanistan. The crisis has put considerable pressure on Karzai.
The Taliban took 23 people hostage and have killed two of them. It is seeking the release of prisoners, but the Afghan government has refused. The United States also adamantly opposes any concessions to such demands.
Bush and Karzai agreed during their meeting that "there should be no quid pro quo" that could embolden the Taliban, said Gordon Johndroe, a Bush spokesman.
On another matter, Karzai said Bush heard and shared his concerns about the mounting number of Afghan casualties as the war there rages on. Militants often wear civilian dress and seek shelter in villagers' homes, making it hard to differentiate the enemy from the innocent.
"I was very happy with that conversation," Karzai said.
Bush said that U.S. forces "do everything we can to protect the innocent."
Karzai arrived Sunday afternoon, and joined the first family for some all-American fare ahead of the Monday meetings.
Karzai defended freeing a 14-old Pakistani boy who was arrested just before he was to carry out a suicide bomb attack against an Afghan governor. Karzai declared the teen an innocent boy who was used by terrorists.
"It was the right decision to pardon him," Karzai said.
"The message should be clear to the rest of the world about the evil that we're fighting," he added.
The liberal media asked Bush to violate Pakistani sovereignty, and to tell the world he would do exactly that.
Bush handled the question well, but he did look like he was a deer caught in the headlights at first. Long period of silence before he responded properly.
I was worried.
I think it’s about time Bush told the reporters that some questions are not helpful on the WOT and that to answer some questions give our enemies information that may harm our efforts.
What the liberal media wants is not important to Joe Sixpack. However Joe has a right to know what the heck our leader proposes to do to the safehaven on an enemy identified by his own government.
We have been supposedly doing covert ops in Pakistan for a while, weren’t we? It doesn’t look like those actions have done anything useful given that Al Qaeda is openly training and releasing daily videos from Pakistan.
Since when did not embarassing an “ally” become a higher priority than safeguarding American lives here?
If another attack happens here and it leads back to Pakistan, it won’t be the MSM alone that asks these questions.
The media was just trying to bail out Obama by getting Bush to say he’d do what Obama proposed.
When the liberal media wants to tear down the only man attempting to take out our enemies, it is important.
What our leader proposes to do with a safehaven within the nation of an ally must be a state secret.
We *probably* have been doing covert ops in Pakistan. The revelation of that information would destroy the leader whom has allied with us in Pakistan. You are too focused on what things “look like” and are relying too much on a media casting the worst possible light on the situation in the first place.
Al Qaeda is not “openly” doing anything in Pakistan.
There is no benefit embarrassing our allies in Pakistan and no safeguarding of American lives in the exposure you seem to seek to justify.
If another attack happens here that can be traced back to involvement with the government of Pakistan, it is highly likely that the revelation of information such as the information you seek is responsible for overthrowing our allies in Pakistan and replacing them with our enemies.
I have lived in Pakistan serving our government in the 1980s and know a bit about that country. I suggest you READ the NIE and the statements of the DNI and Pentagon officials in open hearings. Al Qaeda IS openly training in Pakistan as per our own intelligence chiefs statements ON THE RECORD. The 7/7/05 London attacks, the failed 2006 bombings and the Glasgow attack have all been traced back to these camps.
What you suggest is to blindly believe that Bush is always right. The fact that Al Qaeda has a sanctuary (not my word but Bush’s own) 6 years after 9/11 is an indication of massive failure of our Afghanistan/Pakistan policy. This is why every GOP candidate is also saying we need to take muscular steps about Pakistan.
Like I said, Americans won’t care about details but they can see the results for themselves. And our results in Pakistan and Afghanistan are pretty dismal by Bush team’s own assessment.
Complete BS on the whole - What has been accomplished in Stan over the past 6 years is incredible by all reasonable (and historic) measures.....When one understands the region (and doesn't simply have a Pro-India dog in this fight - Which you do Saberwidlder).
Are there security concerns, of course. Are the Pak border regions a mess (when in history haven't they been - At least over the past 5 years we've been killing evil SOBs there)....
The reality is Stan was literally still in the dark ages prior to Nov 01....We've made tremendous progress there since then. Anyone who has stepped foot in Stan in 01 and then again today could not deny such.
Of course there are still issues and areas of concern. Acknowledging such within the litany of the hundreds of reports on that region for the world is one thing (needed and responsible)....Yet then having others cherry-pick such areas of concern to try and suggest there has been no progress or what progress there has been is "dismal"....Only shows the lack of any intellectually honest from those cherry-pickers themselves...
Maelstorm - You are exactly right with much of your above comments -
Complete BS on the whole - What has been accomplished in Stan over the past 6 years is incredible by all reasonable (and historic) measures.....When one understands the region (and doesn't simply have a Pro-India dog in this fight - Which you do Saberwidlder).
Are there security concerns, of course. Are the Pak border regions a mess (when in history haven't they been - At least over the past 5 years we've been killing evil SOBs there)....
The reality is Stan was literally still in the dark ages prior to Nov 01....We've made tremendous progress there since then. Anyone who has stepped foot in Stan in 01 and then again today could not deny such.
Of course there are still issues and areas of concern. Acknowledging such within the litany of the hundreds of reports on that region for the world is one thing (needed and responsible)....Yet then having others cherry-pick such areas of concern to try and suggest there has been no progress or what progress there has been is "dismal"....Only shows the lack of any intellectually honest from those cherry-pickers themselves...
Maelstorm - You are exactly right with much of your above comments -
He's gonna' hop on that right after he orders Chertoff to take his $2.1 billion from 2006 to build the wall, and Gonzales to stop talking to Congress about stuff that's none of their business, as well as prosecuting the NSA leaker from DoJ.
Any minute now.
The only dog I have is that of wanting to see our homeland safe. When our ally (the real one, Karzai) says that the current scenario is dismal and it is corroborated by our NIE, then history can decide who is right.
I don’t impute motives to your pro-Musharraf posts and I suggest you do the same with me. Ad Hominem is usually an indication of a failure of reason.
You can spin it anyway you want but for a common American, the admission by his government that the prime enemy has established a safe haven in the same region after six years of fighting sends a clear message. And it ain’t one of success.
Join the party!
Wha’d you do in Pakistan in the 80s?
I did QA work for a defense contractor. Ping me offline and we can chat more. Thanks.
Gov't agencies, NGA, and the like exist to point out areas of concern.....You cherry picking only the negatives sans any reasonable context speaks volumes about you (not well).
Furthermore, your notion that we should have completely removed AQ and their mimics in less than 5 years is absurd. You simply do not understand COIN nor DA CT OPs
Lastly, understand that certain times specific rhetoric is used for very specific reasons.....(think "safe-haven")
Reality is what has been accomplished in Stan in less than 5 years is damn impressive. We have literally removed Stan from the dark ages toward the process of joining the modern day world....with a minimal loss of life - Understand, wargammers were talking 5,000 - 15,000 min U.S. casualty figures for the removal of the Taliban Gov't...pre-war).
Our casualty figures aren't even close to those suggested numbers -
Bottom line regarding the Pak border regions (where Sr. AQ HVTs, UBL and Zawahiri have eked out their survival) is is in a sh*t part of the world and an even sh*tter area to operate in or to bring progress to....(and they know it and choose this area because of such)
Do we need the Pak Gov't to do more? Yes (where they can).
The situation can be frustrating, sure. So what! We have to be adults and deal with it....We are making progress and have been (we've killed a number of HVTs within these regions).
The concept of putting more of both (U.S. Guns and butter) into these regions is exactly the way to go. Guns at those we want dead...and butter to those who get out of our way...
It’s kind of funny that you should call my pointing out of the Al Qaeda safe haven in Pakistan “cherry picking.” The last time I checked, we attacked Afghanistan for the express purpose of REMOVING a safe haven that existed. The primary target is still active. That’s no cherry picking. It’s more like the elephant in the room.
You hire an exterminator to clean out a termite’s nest in your basement. He works for a few months and says - Hey I’ve put in a new pool table, painted the walls with your team’s colors and laid out a fresh coat of paint but you still have a nest down there.
Would you pay the fella? Neither would I.
Would you pay the fella? Neither would I.
Pure BS analogy that fails on just about every level - First off trying to compare the complexities of the WOT to that of a termite exterminator...Just silly..
But secondly, a more honest overview of your wrong-headed analogy would be....You hire this exterminator and he cleans out the termites from YOUR house.....but some within your nest move out and into your neighbor's house.......Your neighbor at that point says "he'll take care of it, it's his property"......Do you say "Fk off, I want them all dead, regardless of it being your property"....Or do you try and work with your neighbor (via helping with funds if he needs them, equipment, your own sweat, etc, etc).
Now that would be closer to the truth - And yes, I would pay the exterminator I hired for cleaning out my original house....
But again, on the whole your analogy is flawed on too many levels to list.....
Bottom line is there has been tremendous progress in Stan (and Iraq!). Bottom line is since Sept 11th, 2001 our enemies have suffered one strategic defeat after another...we have not suffered one!
Bottom line is since 2001, we have killed or captured over 3/4 of AQ original leadership and ditto that percentage for their less effective replacements.......We have killed an even higher percentage of Stan-Taliabn leadership.....Not to mention tens of thousands of jihad foot soldiers......The world is safer, America is safer because of our actions.
That not every issue or concern regarding AQ and their mimics has been solved within six years...is not a reason for criticism......those who think like such are fools who have no clue....Plain and simple.
"The security situation in Afghanistan over the past two years has definitely deteriorated. There is no doubt about that. The incidents of terrorism affecting Afghanistan have increased. The Afghan people have suffered."Hamid Karzai August 5, 2007
"We hope they (Pakistanis) will do better because when Al Qaeda has refuge in Pakistan, as it clearly does, that simply is not acceptable."Undersecretary of State Nick Burns 8/2/2007
"The NIE report also cites some setbacks. One of the most troubling is its assessment that al Qaeda has managed to establish a safe haven in the tribal areas of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan."President George W. Bush 7/21/2007
"My belief is the (next) attack most likely would be planned and come out of the leadership in Pakistan."National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell 2/27/07
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.