Posted on 08/25/2007 11:01:01 AM PDT by Aetius
The relevant part;
Q. One thing I haven't heard you talk about is the Minuteman civil border patrol project, which has a strong base in Orange County. What do you think of these activities?
You wouldn't need any of that if the government would do what it's supposed to do, which is to end illegal immigration.
Q. For the time being, are they serving a positive purpose?
A. If they want to organize themselves in way to lawfully deal with illegal immigration, they have a right to do that. If they're going to start doing unlawful things, then you've got to stop them. You can't just, in the abstract, say it's right or wrong. …
I understand why we have to end illegal immigration. We can do it with a physical fence, a high-tech fence, border patrol deployed in the right way, a Border Stat program (to evaluate where and when illegal crossings occur), a tamperproof ID card.
And then, let's expand legal immigration, which we need. We're almost at full employment. Our unemployment rates are down very, very low. We literally need more people in this country. Our birthrate is low. So, there's nothing wrong with encouraging legal immigration.
(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...
The idea makes no sense, of course, and would only hasten the demographic destruction of the GOP and conservative movement that current levels of immigration are already helping to lead us to.
And since Giuliani makes the case based mostly on employment/economic points, then it begs the question of why must legal levels necessarily be increased? If its all (or mostly) about labor, then when not first reallocate the present number of visas? Why not end extended family chain migration, and see how many slots that opens up for employment-based visas? Why not end the ridiculous Diversity Visa Lottery? That would free up 50,000 slots every year! Why not get stricter with refugee/asylum seekers so as to cut back on fraud and the settlement here of people better suited elsewhere? Why not do these things first, and see if it can accomodate the number of workers Giuliani believes we need? Unfortunately, this is another of those questions that will NEVER be asked of any of the candidates.
In short, why must it always be more for liberal-on-immigration conservatives? We need not ask why Democrats and liberals believe that, because it is clearly to their electoral/demographic advantage, but why so many Republicans seem intent on making the party unelectable as fast as possible is a mystery to me.
Part of the problem with Giuliani, I believe, is his own family's immigration history. There is nothing wrong with being proud of it of course, but when it renders you incapable of thinking rationally about a huge area of public policy, then perhaps you shouldn't be President.
At this rate and with the approval and assistance of its own elected officals of both parties , this nation will cease to exist in 50 years as it is currently constituted, some say it will be much sooner than that.
I’m trying to be an optomist, btw.
Hype and hyper-driven processes even now are working to accelerate that sad and unfortunate event from happening.
Oh well,, guess we will just have to do what the Romans did, eat drink and be merry.
Gun control. amnesty for illegals, more immigration, abortion,
I will find it very difficult to vote for this RINO.
Well that seems obvious to you, me, and anyone else willing to look at actual data and facts regarding voting patterns of immigrants, but it apparently does not register with people like Giuliani, President Bush, Senator McCain, Michael Barone, Fred Barnes, and a whole host of other liberal-on-immigration Republicans. They have actually bought into the nonsense that says immigrants are ‘natural Republicans’ who would vote that way if only certain bad guys in the party would stop being so mean!
The truth, of course, is that for every factor by which Hispanics may be naturally inclined to vote Republican, there are at least as many other factors pushing them towards the Democrats, and those pro-Dem dynamics are obviously stronger than the pro-GOP ones.
The only chance the GOP would have with Hispanics (short of completely copying the Democrats) would be in an environment of much reduced immigration, where assimilation will take a much stronger and faster hold. I am amazed that there are conservatives who think that the GOP can actually win (or break-even) among latinos while the inflow continues to be so large. High levels of immigration (legal or illegal) strengthens pretty much every dynamic that makes them lean Democratic in the first place.
Rudy is a joke. I would not want Rudy in charge of WOT.
But he claims he would appoint Scalias and Alitos to the Sup Court!!!
Does anyone actually believe him when he says that?
You are assuming that legal immigrants will be from Mexico and points south. This is not necessarily the case if the US stops illegal immigration and operates a skills based immigration system and makes sure that legal immigrants come from around the world so that you don’t have half the population from one fairly dysfunctional nation.
This in effect was the reponse in the 1920s to World War II after the population became alarmed at the flood of (legal) immigrants at the turn of the century.
I don’t believe ANY politician when they open their mouth at this point.
Sounds like weaseling to me!
There seems to be a lot of that going around.
Sure is not going to help him, thats for sure.
I’d be all for having the levels of immigration we had from the late 1920s to about 1970, when the effects of several restrictionist laws we in force and before Ted Kennedy’s fraudulent 1965 reform bill took effect. That would be about 200,000 per year, I believe.
I am assuming that the biggest part of legal immigration will be from Mexico and other such nations. That is true. But that huge influx will continue so long as never-ending, extended-family chain migration is allowed to continue. Even if all the visas from an increase in legal immigration went to those coming in a skills-based point system, you’d still have an overwhelmingly pro-Democrat influx from the chain migration. I seriously doubt that the skills-based immigrants would break for the GOP any where near enough to off-set the Dem advantage from chain migration.
And that gets back to one of my original points. Why do people like Giuliani automatically call for an increase in the overall inflow? Why not first cut from existing streams of immigration and allocate those visas to a point system? I’d guess that such an idea has never even crossed Giuliani’s mind, and I’ll bet part of the reason for that is, again, his own family’s immigration story. Afterall, if his family was allowed to come, then why not every family on earth that wants to? Its an absurd way to think about it, but many do think in such irrational, crazy ways.
Finally, I’ll say that it is my belief that it would be almost impossible to have high levels of legal immigration and it not benefit the Democrats. I think you’d be hard-pressed to construct a policy that admits upwards of a million people per year, or more, and not have it break for the Democrats. Where in the world could you find a large perpetual stream of people naturally inclined to vote Republican? American conservatism is unique.
On that last point, I want to make clear that I am doubtful that the GOP can benefit from any policy that allows high levels of legal immigration, even if all or most of it were skills-based.
In the current political climate you've got better odds of sprouting wings and flying. We can't even get them to stop the anchor baby bandwagon.
“American conservatism is unique.”
Indeed it is. As is the American Middle class. And way too many forces that would like to see them both done away with. 3rd world mass immigration is a sure way to both.
50 years? Try several years ago.
The birthrate is so low in this country because of abortion, Rudy. What a moron.
That’s also why Russia and France are paying women in their countries to have more children - abortion and birth control have decimated their populations.
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