Getting Vietnam Right

The American Spectator ^ | 8/30/2007 | Mark Moyar

[neverdem]

In the past week, the criticisms swirling around the President's VFW speech have provided much less insight into the President or the speech than into the critics. Rather than address the speech's central issue -- the 1975 debate over the ramifications of abandoning Vietnam -- these individuals have tried to push their own views on Iraq by mentioning other aspects of Vietnam. Emblematic of the attackers was Senator John Kerry, who said that the President's comparison of Vietnam with Iraq was "irresponsible" and "ignorant of the realities of both of those wars." Kerry explained that in Iraq, as in Vietnam, "more American soldiers are being sent to fight and die in a civil war we can't stop and an insurgency we can't bomb into submission." Senator Ted Kennedy, another opponent of both wars, backed this interpretation with the comment that the United States lost the Vietnam War because the South Vietnamese government "lacked sufficient legitimacy with its people."

Kerry and Kennedy missed key facts about Vietnam, some of them long obvious, others newly emerged from historical studies. The New York Times and NBC News and CNN and so on missed them, too, because they chose to rely on outdated historians or their own prejudices. The insurgency in Vietnam was dead by 1971, thanks to South Vietnam's armed forces, America's forces, and a South Vietnamese civilian population that overwhelmingly viewed the South Vietnamese government as legitimate. During 1972, after all American combat units had departed, South Vietnamese forces defeated a massive North Vietnamese invasion with the help of American air power. The so-called Christmas bombing of 1972 bombed North Vietnam into submission, resulting in a peace treaty.

[Westlander]

The War Hero.

[icwhatudo]

IIRC that photo is a fake.

This is the real one:

[Westlander]

Yes, I know it’s bogus. But it is pretty good.

[Shelayne]

Wait a second...John Kerry served in Viet Nam??

You don’t say!

[Candor7]

President Bush is factually and historically correct.Yet few people , including the spin whores of the MSM, those moonbats who fail to mention that a whole culture was irretreivably lost in America's liberal spasm of Vietnam's abandonment.

If you are tied to Vietnam, I could recommend no better book than this, which chronicles the end of a cultural era in South Vietnam, that of the traditional medicine herbal doctor, a world far from ours, full of tigers that don't attack people,basic goodness, monsters, ghosts and spirits in bottles.

This book tells us about what cultural loss was occasioned by the foolish liberals in the streets of America, who fulminated the abandonment of an ally and a people, who are now revealed to have been more precious than most of us will ever know.

"Fourth Uncle In The Mountain," by Quang Van Nguyen with Marjorie Pivar:

http://www.marjoriepivar.com/

The loss of this tradition is profound, and one which will forever be to the everlasting shame of idiots like John Kerry and Jane Fonda, and all those who traduced a nation of very special people.

[LjubivojeRadosavljevic]

I found that American intervention in Vietnam saved Indonesia from going Communist in 1965. It probably also prevented countries such as Thailand, Japan, the Philippines, and Malaysia from becoming Communist or pro-Communist.

Really?

In the context of Japan, and in view of the author's comment above, I would think that Dr. William Edwards Deming is most likely turning over in his grave.

[BIGLOOK]

Many times politicians and professional people have preached that history is just another story, another view of events. To do so facts must be manipulated to massage the story, the view, presenting a fable that appeals to a population that remains ignorant and apathetic, weary of the strife and struggle of those that they have little or no connection.

Such was the case in Viet Nam. Such is the case now. The names of the editors of history are all here; Kennedy, Kerry, Fonda, and Dodd in this article, joining with Cronkite, Rooney, Ramsay Clark and others that shaped opinions of events that once were current but not relevant in the scope of history but recorded in their contradictorily effects on public opinion, in 18 minutes out of a thirty minute newscast, daily.

All of them deceive the public in the shadow of the Lime Light. They are not historians and over the past decades, they are not factual reporters of events.

Their world is collapsing with the advent of the Internet and the passage of time, yet they persist in publishing and promoting wrong headed notions and errata, seeking to rise like the Phoenix in another time, in their lifetimes. This self gratification is appallingly intellectually shallow and perverse.

Many here have experiences that belie the historical fabrications of the elite media, the celebrities and the politicians. First hand knowledge in bits and parts, day to day experiences and a sense of personal history, all of which in collaboration with veterans and others who served presents a different picture of events and outcomes at odds with the those who report and protest in the camera's eye.

I conclude they fear the veteran, top to bottom; they fear the veteran's return.

Degeneres animos timor arguit. (Virgil).

So it should.

[- Smokestack Lightning]

Kerry explained that in Iraq, as in Vietnam, "more American soldiers are being sent to fight and die in a civil war we can't stop and an insurgency we can't bomb into submission."

Jon Cary's Alzheimer's is showing again. It's an all volunteer military now, doofus.

This guy lives in permanent state of 1969.

[StarCMC]

The names of the editors of history are all here; Kennedy, Kerry, Fonda, and Dodd in this article, joining with Cronkite, Rooney, Ramsay Clark and others

Axis of traitors

[Carbonado]

One thing that all Libs gave in common is their childish notions of how the world works (or should work), and their bottomless penchant for willing self deception.

The see themselves as the smartest, most enlightened people in the world and they take it as a given that everyone else should accept that too, and also that the worlds only real problem is those who refuse to acknowledge them (Libs) as their enlightened saviors and masters. If only we would understand how much more enlightened they are than us mere mortals, heaven would come to Earth.

Only the Libs (so they believe) can truly understand the bigger picture in all situations and it is only they who can perfect humanity and make life itself perfect.

Reality has no place at that table, so don’t ever expect any Lib, especially in the MSM, to accept any facts that contravene those basic assumptions. And when they and their decisions are directly responsible for the deaths and suffering of millions don’t look for them to ever accept the truth of it. Like all children, they will spin endless tales about how “you made me do it” or “I learned it from watching you” or how they were simply making the best of a bad situation created by others. They can never be held responsible for bad things that happen due to their actions, since they are the smartest, most courageous and noble people in the world, and they insist they only be held accountable for their intentions.

Liberalism will have to be taken head-on and smashed eventually, but how many others will suffer and die due to their arrogant self-deceptions?

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

NEVER FORGET

.

After TED KENNEDY led a post-WATERGATE Democrat Congress into cutting off all our funding for the then Free South Vietnamese People to fight for their own Freedom with,

...just as the Soviet Union gave $6 Billion in 600 tanks, 1,000’s of mobile Artillery pieces and Ammunion to Communist North Vietnam for its planned ‘Final Solution’ in the South (per KGB Files), ..horridly came:

.

Pictures of a vietnamese Re-Education (SLAVE LABOR) Camp

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308949/posts

.

..”JOURNEY from the FALL”.. MoviePremieres = Fall of Saigon CLARITY..

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1806248/posts

.

All with the support of American Anti-Freedom Activists:

HILLARY RODHAM
WILLIAM CLINTON
JOHN KERRY
BARBARA BOXER
WALTER CRONKITE
JANE FONDA
TOM HAYDEN
JESSE JACKSON
RAMSEY CLARK (21st Century SADDAM Defense Attorney)
..and all

.

With this American Anti-Freedom Gang pushing hard to regain control of our precious Oval Office...
..in a new time of war
..in a new century
..with our own Freedom
..directly at stake
..right here at home,

..what price is to be paid now by the still Free (that’s US), I wonder..?

.

Signed:..”ALOHA RONNIE” Guyer
~Pro-Freedom Activist 1997-2007
~Veteran-1st Major Battles for Freedom of the Vietnam War 1965-1966

http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set1.htm
(See 5th Photo down-TED KENNEDY touring a then Free South Vietnam at the very beginning of the Fight for Freedom of the Vietnam War. In other words, he has always just known better)

http://www.RickRescorla.com/The%20Statue.htm

http://www.ArmchairGeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48215

.

NEVER FORGET

.

[Nuocmam]

To bad that Thomas Sowell’s “The Vision of the Anointed” isn’t required reading by everyone. He makes the exact point that no matter what the facts, liberals are never responsible for failure of what they advocate eg “But think of how much worse it would have been if we hadn’t....” “If only a sufficient number of $$$ had been allocated to....” However, we must remember that Sowell is a black conservative and with a name like Thomas must therefore be an Uncle Tom. Reading such a work would be wasted on the liberal mind. Our only hope is to get to minds before they are indoctrinated into the liberal pit.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

I’d really like to thank you for your validating all that we Freedom-loving Veterans, and this Vietnam Veteran in partiular, see and sacrifice much for others to also see:

http://www.lzxray.com/Ronnie3.jpg
(All things sacrificed, but the Santa Hat, Shirt, Lic. Plate)

.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

“The 2 greatest threats facing America today are:

1) IRAN with a Nuclear weapon

2) The GULLIBILITY of the American People”

.

...Conserviative Political Columnist Extraordinaire THOMAS SEWELL-2007

.

[Carbonado]

Never read that book but it is now on my reading list.

[Nuocmam]

If you haven’t already done so, go to Sowell’s web site (http://www.tsowell.com/) where you will find a archieve of his cols. as well as source for his books and articles. I got “Visions” several years ago in a local bookstore but don’t know how available it is elsewhere.

In the same vein is Philip K. Howard’s “The Death of Common Sense - How Law is Suffocating America” which deals how “THE PROCESS” has become the primary concern not getting something done.

[Rembrandt]

“This guy lives in permanent state of 1969.”

Do you mean just after Christmas of 1968 when Kerry was in Cambodia under orders of Richard Nixon, President of the U.S. who assumed office January 20, 1969?