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'NHS should not treat those with unhealthy lifestyles' say Tories
The Evening Standard (UK) ^ | September 4, 2007

Posted on 09/04/2007 3:07:07 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Patients who refuse to change their unhealthy lifestyles should not be treated by the NHS, the Conservatives said today.

In a bid to ease spiralling levels of obesity and other health concerns, a Tory panel said certain treatments should be denied to patients who refuse to co-operate with health professionals and live healthier lifestyles.

And those who do manage to improve their general health by losing weight and quitting smoking, for example, would receive "Health Miles" cards.

Points earned could then be used to pay for health-related products such as gym membership and fresh vegetables.

The aim is a shift in the NHS towards preventing disease and ill-health rather than having to treat it.

The proposal was one of a raft of measures suggested in a review of public services, ordered by David Cameron.

The 200-page study, entitled Restoring Pride in Our Public Services, was carried out by the Conservative public services improvement policy group's review co-chaired by former health secretary Stephen Dorrell and leading educationalist Baroness Perry.

"It is inconsistent with the concept of the responsible citizen to imagine that it is realistic for citizens, having paid their taxes, to expect that the state will underwrite the health implications of any lifestyle decision they choose to make," the report states.

Along with the health proposals were a raft of suggested changes in education and housing.

Smaller schools, it has been suggested, would improve overall results.

In cases where pupil numbers are falling large schools in the centre of London and other cities would be closed, rather than smaller schools in outlying areas. Inner city pupils could be transported to schools in the suburbs and even villages to ensure they remain open.

"Schools within schools" could be created to tackle poor discipline, particularly in large schools, national targets could be reduced and struggling pupils could be forced to repeat their final year at primary school.

Former chief inspector of schools Lady Perry said: "Every time we have a cutting back of numbers in schools, the knee-jerk reaction is to close all the little village schools or suburban schools and bus all the pupils into great big city schools.

"Schools are getting bigger and bigger. All the evidence is that discipline, achievement and standards are better in small schools than they are in big ones. So why don't we instead close the great big city school if numbers start to fall and bus the children out to the villages?

"It does not cost any more. It would be so much more productive for the children from the middle of the city to be taken out to the suburbs."

She branded the trend towards large schools a "disaster" - as Education Secretary Ed Balls hailed moves to create more mergers between schools.

He said: "Rather than set schools against schools, we need to increase collaboration."

The Tories' renewed focus on schools came on the same day shock official figures revealed an 83% in school spending only brings a 1% boost in productivity.

A report from the Office for National Statistics showed state schools were more productive during 1996-99, a period when spending was tight.

Where housing is concerned council tenants who are well-behaved could be given as much as £50,000 to help them buy their first home.

The move to rescue poor families from 'dead-end ghettos' in deprived inner cities is a key part of a Tory review of public services.

Families with a five-year record of good behaviour would be given a 10 per cent stake in their property in a significant extension of Margaret Thatcher's hugely popular right-to-buy scheme.

Under the 1980 Housing Act, families received a discount of up to 50 per cent on the market value of their house depending on how long they had lived there.

By 1995, 2.1 million families had taken advantage of the scheme to buy their home.

The payment would be held as an equity bond and could be used only to buy a home.

Council houses are typically worth between £100,000 and £200,000 on the private market - but some tenants in Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea could be sitting on properties worth as much as £500,000.

The report says a Conservative Government has a duty to transform deprived inner cities into neighbourhoods with a 'sense of local pride and ownership'.

But handing money to council tenants would be highly controversial as ordinary council taxpayers would foot the bill.

The move could also provoke resentment from those who do not qualify for social housing - and will not be able to take advantage of the windfall.

But Tory officials said the financial costs would be outweighed by the long-term social benefits of good behaviour by tenants.

The latest proposal is aimed at boosting individuals' pride in their home by letting them own a share of it.

Other health measures outlined include incentives to encourage GPs to "re-engage" in responsibility for the out-of-hours care provided to their patients, without imposing "undesirable working patterns" on doctors.

Tory leader David Cameron will examine the proposals before deciding which ones to make policy.

Crucially on health, the group concluded that far more focus must be placed by the NHS on public health issues.

"We have considered ideas such as an 'NHS Health Miles Card' to promote the concept of wellbeing," says the report.

"Although much work would be required for development, we think that the creation of a small individual benefit scheme would change the language of health from illness to wellbeing."

The group also warns that public support for the NHS is under threat because of the "failure" to engage citizens in the drive to improve the service and to boost productivity despite the billions being poured into it.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: barackhusseinobama; bigbrother; democrats; economy; freelunch; healthcare; hillarycare; hillaryclinton; illness; johnedwards; mandatorymedicine; michaelmoore; mittcare; mittromney; nannystate; riskybehavior; socialism; socializedmedicine; taxes
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1 posted on 09/04/2007 3:07:11 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Then do the unhealthy get a tax rebate for all they paid in taxes that went to the NHS?

After all, why should the unhealthy subsidize the healthy?


2 posted on 09/04/2007 3:10:00 PM PDT by DB
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

And that is socialized medicine in a bucket!

When the government is pretty much the sole provider...they’re, also, pretty much the sole decider.


3 posted on 09/04/2007 3:10:23 PM PDT by in hoc signo vinces ("Houston, TX...a waiting quagmire for jihadis.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

oh my gosh — something may hit the fan. What kinds of unhealthy lifestyles are they talking about?

The politically correct crowd will go ballistic about this if they pick on certain types of people such as homosexual men.


4 posted on 09/04/2007 3:10:41 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Are those men who have anal sex refused treatment too?


5 posted on 09/04/2007 3:10:54 PM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
This is what Hillary's socialist health care would ultimately look like. Any excuse to prioritize and cut health care. What's happening is that they want to put money to buy votes elsewhere and don't think sacrificing fat people or bulimics would be a problem.

But the only problem, with this thinking is obvious, the problems just get worse and ultimately cost more. Prevention is worth an ounce of cure and in socialized medicine, prevention gets bogged down in bureaucracy.

6 posted on 09/04/2007 3:12:38 PM PDT by sr4402
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

does this include former senator craigs foot tapping habit?


7 posted on 09/04/2007 3:13:12 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If big government wants to continue to do health care, then big government should provide exercise areas/facilities on every residential block. ...and many other things.

Big government doesn’t work except temporarily for the purpose of winning wars. Taxes should be mainly for defense—not for social engineering causes.


8 posted on 09/04/2007 3:14:30 PM PDT by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt.)--has-been, will write Duncan Hunter in)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"It is inconsistent with the concept of the responsible citizen to imagine that it is realistic for citizens, having paid their taxes, to expect that the state will underwrite the health implications of any lifestyle decision they choose to make," the report states.

And this is one of many reasons why the state has no damned business being involved in it.

By the way, isn't the socialized medicine crowd always talking about everyone having the "right to healthcare"? I guess that "right" just doesn't apply to everyone after all.

9 posted on 09/04/2007 3:16:05 PM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican
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To: roses of sharon

and those that vote republican,....and those that have purchased a firearm in the last 10 years......and those who drink red wine, or white, or beer, or other forms of consumable alcohol. Or those that eat meat, or live in certain neiborhoods, or have a home with more than 1000 sq ft of livalbe space....


10 posted on 09/04/2007 3:17:45 PM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The aim is a shift in the NHS towards preventing disease and ill-health rather than having to treat it.
Translation: NHS is shifting from treatment to preaching. If you get sick, don't come to us for medicine or surgery... but we will tell you where you went wrong.

(And by the way, keep those tax dollars coming our way folks. We're doing one hell of a good job!)

11 posted on 09/04/2007 3:18:10 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Drinking pints is unhealthy too. Let’s see how this goes over in a pub society.

Smoking fags is also unhealthy, in more ways than one. Cigarettes may just kill you.


12 posted on 09/04/2007 3:18:53 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: Dilbert San Diego

“What kinds of unhealthy lifestyles are they talking about?”

Quite so...who decides what is unhealthy? Is rock-climbing unhealthy? Surely those who indulge in extreme sports have proportionally higher injury rates.

What about driving a car?

The point is that you do not withold treatment based on value judgements, this is against the basic tenet of medicine, however frustrating it may be.

The whys and wherefores of having a socialised health service is a completly different discussion. The point is that if you have a NHS then the same level of care must be available to all.


13 posted on 09/04/2007 3:19:42 PM PDT by Dave Elias
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
And those who do manage to improve their general health by losing weight and quitting smoking, for example, would receive "Health Miles" cards.

How many "Health Miles" is it worth not to hang around bath houses and emulate a Night Depository?

14 posted on 09/04/2007 3:26:17 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (Food imported from China = Cesspool + Flavor-Straw™)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The Conservatives are socialists. Shades of John Edwards! They will lose the next UK general election and the margin won't be close.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

15 posted on 09/04/2007 3:29:45 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Yep, government going after what you eat. The next step in socialized medicine aka the communist agenda.

Coming soon - what hobbies you can have, when to sleep, who can have kids and mandatory abortions for ‘difficult’ children that will be too expensive.

Eventually, taxes will be almost 100% and the government will control how your money is spent. Socialized medicine, housing, schools, transportation, vacations, food, etc. Basically the same thing as communism without the name.

I escaped grinding communism and thought it was destroyed. Much to my anger, it is very much alive in the west. Every year I feel more like I am back in the USSR with every new law and encroachment on freedom.

First they came after gun owners
I remained silent
I wasn't a gun owner

Then they came after smokers
I did not speak out
I’m not a smoker

Then when they came for me,
There was no one left to speak out...

16 posted on 09/04/2007 3:38:15 PM PDT by varyouga ("Rove is some mysterious God of politics & mind control" - DU 10-24-06)
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To: Abram; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; Allerious; Allosaurs_r_us; amchugh; ...





Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
17 posted on 09/04/2007 3:47:38 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is the next logical progression of the tyranny of the Nanny State after Democrat John Edwards’ plan to require all US citizens to have an annual checkup. It must be understood that “require” in the context of government means a plan that includes sending armed agents who are charged with either seeing the order complied with or the citizen may die trying to resist.

To be sure, this Road to the Secular Utopia is paved with good intentions, but we have had several decades of predicates that start off with laws requiring this or that (such as seat belts and motorcycle helmets), justified in large measure because the State ends up paying the medical bills of the injured who are not able to pay them. We have recently been further insulted by bans on smoking on private property and even in private automobiles based on the same liberty-destroying reasoning.

The only way to slay this monstrosity is for people to insist on paying their own medical expenses and insurance premiums.


18 posted on 09/04/2007 3:47:48 PM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: Dave Elias

I think that will be the point of socialized medicine.

Eventually EVERYTHING is healthcare.

Remember when those socialist doctors wanted gun control to be a “health care” issue?

Its the Joseph Koctau Joy Joy Be Well version of life behavior enforcement.


19 posted on 09/04/2007 3:51:01 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Oh for the love of pete!

Tax smokers to death then deny them health care, thats sounds fair.


20 posted on 09/04/2007 3:58:20 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: varyouga
As a former inmate of communism you should write columns. Many columns. Submit them everywhere.

Alert the mentally fat and lazy here, those who either forgot or never learned what makes the US an exception in world history. Your words could resonate better than a dozen Ronald Reagans. Just do it.

21 posted on 09/04/2007 4:03:11 PM PDT by Jacquerie (All Muslims are suspect.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hm... I don’t see anything at all objectionable about this. If they’re going to go ahead and have nationalized health care, it seems reasonable to exclude people who PURPOSEFULLY get sick. It’s a bad idea to have it nationalized in the first place, but how much worse of an idea is it to subsidize people’s destructive habits? The government doesn’t exist to remove from people any responsibility in their own lives. This plan seems very reasonable if, as I said, the nationalized health care will proceed no matter what.


22 posted on 09/04/2007 4:04:19 PM PDT by COgamer
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To: longtermmemmory

“Joseph Koctau Joy Joy Be Well”

Huh?


23 posted on 09/04/2007 4:09:11 PM PDT by secretagent
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To: COgamer

So anyone with ANY unsafe or bad behaviors should be excluded? Like AIDS from homosexual sex or IV drug use? Smoking and it’s attendent diseases? Eating junk food in any amount? Speeding or other traffic violations? Not aborting a problem baby and carrying it to term? Not exercising?


24 posted on 09/04/2007 4:12:56 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Our next president: Fred Thompson!! http://www.ImWithFred.com)
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To: DB

In a real socialized healthcare plan, the healthy are subsidizing the unhealthy. After all, the healthy don’t use the healthcare services. Kind of like those of us in the US who purchase health insurance, but don’t get sick. Our money goes to pay for the unhealthy people who use healthcare. I like the plan to give credit to those who live a healthy lifestyle.


25 posted on 09/04/2007 4:13:58 PM PDT by whipitgood (Let's burn some MEXICAN flags!)
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To: familyop

“provide exercise areas/facilities on every residential block”

Or you could just walk around the block.


26 posted on 09/04/2007 4:17:16 PM PDT by live+let_live
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To: COgamer

I understand your point but the problems can get even more complicated.

I am white and my ancestors live into their 90’s.

Blacks in the U.S. tend to have problems with hypertension and diabetes.

Can we drop them from the health plan since the odds are great they will need extra care?

No of course not.

The only answer is to not start down the road to national health insurance.


27 posted on 09/04/2007 4:29:41 PM PDT by live+let_live
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
In a bid to ease spiralling levels of obesity and other health concerns, a Tory panel said certain treatments should be denied to patients who refuse to co-operate with health professionals and live healthier lifestyles.

I presume that such people are exempt from all of the taxes used to fund socialized medicine in the UK?
28 posted on 09/04/2007 4:33:33 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

All those STILL in favor of government run health care, raise your hands!!

(Neat-o!! We’ve corned the moron vote!)


29 posted on 09/04/2007 4:38:45 PM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: Jacquerie
“As a former inmate of communism you should write columns. Many columns. Submit them everywhere.”

An interesting idea. Most people think I am being paranoid and a good amount say I ‘need therapy’.

I feel like we are going somewhere worse than communism. The communists never had the pop culture we do. Pop culture pushes me-first, pleasure-first, political correctness and anti-family propaganda. People think the government will pay for their bad choices.

I see kids today being raised by the TV and popping pills to make them easier to manage. They are not allowed to go outside or even play indoors because it’s ‘dangerous’. And these kids are my cousins with parents that are considered 'good'. In the increasing numbers of broken homes it's probably worse.

30 posted on 09/04/2007 4:42:01 PM PDT by varyouga ("Rove is some mysterious God of politics & mind control" - DU 10-24-06)
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To: Jacquerie
“As a former inmate of communism you should write columns. Many columns. Submit them everywhere.”

An interesting idea. Most people think I am being paranoid and a good amount say I ‘need therapy’.

I feel like we are going somewhere worse than communism. The communists never had the pop culture we do. Pop culture pushes me-first, pleasure-first, political correctness and anti-family propaganda. People think the government will pay for their bad choices.

I see kids today being raised by the TV and popping pills to make them easier to manage. They are not allowed to go outside or even play indoors because it’s ‘dangerous’. And these kids are my cousins with parents that are considered 'good'. In the increasing numbers of broken homes it's probably worse.

31 posted on 09/04/2007 4:44:16 PM PDT by varyouga ("Rove is some mysterious God of politics & mind control" - DU 10-24-06)
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To: varyouga

‘Most people think I am being paranoid”

We have a joke here: “It’s not paranoid if they really are out to get you!”

Oh, and welcome to America!


32 posted on 09/04/2007 4:46:57 PM PDT by live+let_live
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To: in hoc signo vinces

Yep


33 posted on 09/04/2007 5:07:16 PM PDT by uncbob (m first)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

OMG What are the homosexuals going to do now?????


34 posted on 09/04/2007 5:28:23 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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To: varyouga
I escaped grinding communism and thought it was destroyed. Much to my anger, it is very much alive in the west. Every year I feel more like I am back in the USSR with every new law and encroachment on freedom.

I grew up here, not there, but I concur -- this is not the country in which I was raised. And we're doing it to ourselves.

35 posted on 09/04/2007 5:50:07 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So they’re proposing to bus the hoods to the kids instead of busing the kids to the hood?


36 posted on 09/04/2007 5:50:18 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg
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To: varyouga
I feel like we are going somewhere worse than communism. The communists never had the pop culture we do. Pop culture pushes me-first, pleasure-first, political correctness and anti-family propaganda. People think the government will pay for their bad choices.

I see kids today being raised by the TV and popping pills to make them easier to manage. They are not allowed to go outside or even play indoors because it’s ‘dangerous’. And these kids are my cousins with parents that are considered 'good'. In the increasing numbers of broken homes it's probably worse.


You are absolutely right. Fortunately, sprinkled in with the narcissistic whiners are kids brought up with a sense of right and wrong, of earning your keep, of duty honor and country, and upholding the Constitution. Some trend studies have shown that many growing up today (Gen Y?) are more conservative than their parents. When I see the large numbers still signing up to defend this country, I am heartened that all is not lost. We must all keep praying for America, the hope of the world.
37 posted on 09/04/2007 5:53:41 PM PDT by visualops (My son started Air Force BMT today!)
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To: varyouga
An interesting idea. Most people think I am being paranoid and a good amount say I ‘need therapy’.

If that's true, then we're further gone than I thought (or dared to think).

38 posted on 09/04/2007 5:54:46 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: SheLion; Gabz; 383rr; libertarian27; traviskicks; CSM; valkyrieanne; altura; TheKidster; ...

Big Brother, Nanny State, Grant Junky, Bogus Study, Junk Science, Social Engineering, Sheeple Control, Health Nazi Ping!!!

This is an extremely low volume ping list. 1 per day max. To be added to or deleted from this ping list, please click one of the follwing:

Eric, you are a genius add me to your ping list or Eric, you are a jackass, take me off this ping list

To request that I stop using these gay html colors and fonts, please send me a private message below.

____________________________________________________________________

Constitution of the Left Wing Nanny State of Liberals:

Picture courtesy of unixfox. All rights reserved. Copyright MMVII. Any use of the pictures descriptions or accounts of this ping without the express written consent of unixfox, Eric Blair, or Major League Baseball is strictly prohibited. Some restrictions apply. Ping not available in all states. For erections lasting longer than four hours, call the Guiness Book of World Records. Use only as directed.

Preamble:

We the People Sheeple of the United States Nanny State, in Order to form a more perfect Union Socialist Utopia, establish Justice Socially engineer a country of non smoking, physically fit, tea totallers, insure domestic Tranquility Smoking bans in bars, limits on unhealthy food and social drinking, provide for the common defense Universal Healthcare, promote the general Welfare health of the population whether they like it or not, in order to save above mentioned Universal Healthcare entitlement program from bankruptcy, and secure the Blessings of Liberty Dependency to ourselves progressive liberals and our Posterity Hitler Youth who we brainwash through public school education, do ordain decree and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Nanny State of Liberals

39 posted on 09/04/2007 6:15:00 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1563271/posts
Healthy People 2010


40 posted on 09/04/2007 6:17:32 PM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: COgamer

Satire... faticiousness?


41 posted on 09/04/2007 6:18:21 PM PDT by pacelvi (In general, Democrats are the only real reason to vote for Republicans. - Thomas Sowell)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I like the comments:

The Tories will never win a election with Cameron as leader,
He comes across as a rich boy that is completely out of touch with the real world. The tories stand a better chance with Hague at least he knows what he is talking about.

- Mick Wright, Wellingborough, UK

I assume people with unhealthy lifestyles will be exempt from paying NI Contributions as well as being exempt from receiving NI benefits. Just lost my vote Mr Cameron.

- F, London

If the object of the exercise is to anihilate the conservative party for all time, I guess Cameron is doing a rather good job.

- Jim, Menton, France

In that case, those with unhealthy lifestyles should not be expected to contribute to the NHS in any way.

- M, Essex

“Well-behaved council tenants to be given £50,000 to help buy homes”
Excellent idea, I’m ecstatic that he wants to give £50k of my money to other people, how very kind of him, and will he be giving me anything for this wanton act of charity on my part?

- Terry Roll, London

I wholeheartedly agree with his stance on those ignorant folk who deliberately ignore their own health and expect every one else to pick up the pieces. It’s high time someone took some action on this.

- Simon Caleb, Clapham, London


42 posted on 09/04/2007 6:21:41 PM PDT by pacelvi (In general, Democrats are the only real reason to vote for Republicans. - Thomas Sowell)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Heh, we knew this kind of garabage was in the works.

I wonder how long before this spreads here?


43 posted on 09/04/2007 6:23:21 PM PDT by 383rr (Those who choose security over liberty deserve neither- GUN CONTROL=SLAVERY)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
Well, it's only for the little guy, ya know. I know Canada has its problems, too.

But there are two Americas.

44 posted on 09/04/2007 6:23:43 PM PDT by HoosierHawk
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Patients who refuse to change their unhealthy lifestyles should not be treated by the NHS, the Conservatives said today."

Yeah, but they must still pay for it.

45 posted on 09/04/2007 6:27:55 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: HoosierHawk

I saw that John Edwards thread. You get it, others don’t.

OPEN MEMO TO MY FELLOW AMERICANS:

This is why places like NYC are agitating for smoking and trans fat bans. 33% of their budget goes towards medical entitlement spending through SCHIP, Medicare and Medicaid. As the baby boomers age, that number will top 50%

If anybody is left here who thinks this is really about smoke in a bar or a simple step to take trans fat out and then they’ll stop...then you are a retard.

This is where we are headed in the USA. If Gubmint is given the obligation of paying for your health care, then it is their right, indeed their duty, to intervene and reduce their cost and taxpayer costs. ie: Drop the Chalupa, fatass!


46 posted on 09/04/2007 6:32:41 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: 383rr

It’s here now, sadly.
A fair percentage of medical care is state subsidized and paid for here. “Preventative Medicine” is just a code word for drop the chalupa, stub out the cigarette, put down the beer and start excercising.


47 posted on 09/04/2007 6:36:01 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Well, that’s true.


48 posted on 09/04/2007 6:39:41 PM PDT by 383rr (Those who choose security over liberty deserve neither- GUN CONTROL=SLAVERY)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Liberals never stop. They are the same evil beings in every country.


49 posted on 09/04/2007 6:55:53 PM PDT by bfree (liberalism is the enemy of freedom!!!)
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To: Jacquerie; varyouga
As a former inmate of communism you should write columns. Many columns. Submit them everywhere.

Alert the mentally fat and lazy here, those who either forgot or never learned what makes the US an exception in world history.

I knew an Armenian woman whose uncle somehow got her family permission to leave the USSR. She said they were supposed to leave at a certain time, and they disposed of all their assets and went to the airport - at which time her parents were allowed to go but she and her brother were retained. So they were under tremendous pressure from having no base of support. And a girl (when she said it I looked at her shraply, and she repeated, "I mean a beautiful girl) started playing up to her brother and trying to convince him to stay in Moscow.

I so wished that she could have published that story before Clinton was elected POTUS! He who had gone to Russia and didn't know if he had seen any KGB agents! The actual question to have asked him was if he had met anyone who was not a KGB agent there!

My own efforts are confined to analyzing the reasons for the support which governmentists get in America. I've concluded that it traces back to the history of the telegraph and the Associated Press, which is a pretty good start for explaining the propaganda tendencies of "objective" journalism. And all I do with my analyses is to post them on FR. In their most concentrated form, they can be seen in

Why Broadcast Journalism is
Unnecessary and Illegitimate


50 posted on 09/04/2007 7:00:44 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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