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Border Fence 'Very Doable,' Engineers Say
CNSNews.com ^ | September 06, 2007 | Fred Lucas

Posted on 09/06/2007 5:51:55 AM PDT by SJackson

(CNSNews.com) - Building a fence across the entire 1,952-mile border of the United States and Mexico can be done, with only two requirements needed, according to engineers.

"All it takes is time and money," said Brian Damkroger, senior manager for border security and exploratory systems at the New Mexico-based Sandia National Laboratories.

Sandia is working with the federal government in securing the border through a border fence and other measures. Sandia also helped design the 15-foot-high, 14-mile-long, double layer security fence in San Diego, viewed by fence proponents as a model of what works in deterring illegal immigration.

A border wall could be constructed across the southern border probably in less than five years if the federal government devoted multiple crews to the project to work on different sections of the wall concurrently, said David Hunley, vice president of Connico, Inc. a Nashville-based engineering firm.

"It's a large-scale project, but it's not high tech," Hunley said. "You just have to have the people to throw at it. You would also need the political will to do it."

At present, the federal government doesn't plan on fencing off half of the entire border. Rather, Congress approved and President Bush signed a bill last year authorizing the construction of 854 miles of fencing to strategically seal 700 miles of the border.

Actual cost estimates for the 700 miles of secure border vary widely, between $3 million per mile initially estimated by the Congressional Budget Office to the far larger potential of $70 million per mile to build and maintain, according to a December 2006 Congressional Research Service report.

The high estimate for the entire wall is partially based on the past cost of litigation during the construction of the San Diego fence, said a spokesman for Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.).

That should not be an issue now, spokesman Joe Kasper told Cybercast News Service, because those issues were settled in court while Congress has granted the Department of Homeland Security broad powers to construct a border-wall.

Since that Secure Fence Act was signed, fewer than 20 miles of fencing have been built.

That prompted Hunter to write a letter to the White House last month, in which the Republican presidential candidate called the "lack of progress unacceptable, especially when adequate funding is available to earnestly proceed with fence construction."

Specifically, Hunter pointed to a 392-mile stretch of fence that is supposed to be completed from Calexico, Calif., to Douglas, Ariz., by May 30, 2008, and another 30 miles of fencing that is supposed to be completed in Laredo, Texas, by the end of 2008.

"Unfortunately, these scheduled mandates will be missed unless fence construction commences immediately in these locations," Hunter wrote.

Counting infrastructure built prior to the 2006 Secure Fence Act, the southern border already has more than 100 miles of fencing, said Laura Keehner, a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security.

By the end of 2008, the department expects to have a total of 370 miles of fencing constructed, Keehner told Cybercast News Service.

The timeline for the entire 700 miles of fencing is tentative, she said. But, it is likely that some of that would come from a "virtual fence" - a large area protected through various electronic security measures.

The "virtual fence" concept has its critics in Congress, including Hunter, who believes the concept is unproven. Hunter argues that the Secure Fence Act specified that a physical fence be built.

What the experts say

Damkroger, head of border patrol projects for Sandia National Laboratories, doesn't discount "virtual fences." His firm has designed fences that use a combination of censors, such as infrared, seismic, radar and over-flights.

The goal of this technology, he said, is to detect and identify the intruder, characterize the threat, and respond.

"In urban areas, we need a physical fence," Damkroger told Cybercast News Service, because there is a great chance of an intruder eluding law enforcement. "Out in the desert, there is the ability through surveillance to see someone before he reaches the border, and more time to respond."

Also designed by Sandia, was the anti-climb material on the San Diego fence. This material is made of high-strength steel mesh, said Damkroger.

"The holes are very small so it would be difficult to get toe and hand holds," he said.

Should a climber reach the top, the fence is designed in such a way the intruder would have to climb upside down to get over the top, he said.

In the early 1990s, Sandia designed the concept of a three-layered security fence. The primary layer would be solid steel. The second layer would be the anti-climb fence, and the third would be a more conventional fence.

Each layer would have a road between it for the U.S. Border Patrol to access, Damkroger said.

The Secure Border Initiative of 2005 already has long-range plans in the works for securing 6,500 miles along both the Mexican and Canadian border that involves physical fences and technology.

The materials used for the border fence as well as the size of the fence, are still undetermined, said Judy Marsicano, spokeswoman for the Fort Worth, Texas, district office of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which is overseeing the 700-mile fencing project.

"It will depend on terrain; whether it's urban, rural or mountainous," Marsicano told Cybercast News Service. "We don't have that."

But Marsicano said the material in most areas of the physical fence would be made of either steel or concrete. She also said it could include multiple different contractors - so different sections of the fence could be made of different material. The government is working to get input from stakeholders, including landowners who will be asked to sell.

She also said the government is conducting an environmental and engineering assessment, which will determine a more precise cost for the project.

Such a security fence could run into environmental problems, said Hunley of Connico, which has been involved in constructing security fences for 25 years, mostly at airports.

At the bottom of the fence, for example, holes are usually small to keep both people and animals out. That can lead to small-scale flooding, he said.

"It can keep people and animals out, but it keeps trash out as well," Hunley told Cybercast News Service. "That can lead to drainage problems. A puddle around it can become huge."

Problems could also emerge concerning issues of waterways, habitat accustomed to crossing the border uninterrupted, and Native American burial grounds located along the border, said Hunley.

Security fences typically go eight to 10 inches into the ground to deter people from digging under, said Hunley, while security cameras could be installed on the fence, along with large lights for further deterrence.

Ultimately, Hunley said, a fence would help, but it is far from a guaranteed solution to protecting the border.

"It will only be as effective as the people who patrol it," he said.

Will a real border fence work?

Critics of the fence say illegal aliens will simply climb the fence, or the fence would just reroute illegal aliens to enter the country elsewhere.

"A border fence is one part of the strategy," Kasper told Cybercast News Service. "It's not a silver bullet. It has to be accompanied by technology. Just look at the success of the San Diego fence. If someone does attempt to get round the wall, Border Patrol agents have more of an opportunity to apprehend them."

In 1996, Congress approved a double-layered fence - with a steel fence as the primary layer, and an anti-climb fence as the second layer - for 14 miles along the border of San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico.

The fence has produced some improvement in the area, according to a Congressional Research Service report in 2005 that said illegal alien apprehensions along the fence region dropped from 202,000 in 1992 to 9,000 in 2004.

Meanwhile, vehicle drive-throughs in the region have fallen from between six to 10 per day before the construction of the fence to four drive-throughs for the entire year of 2004. Crime in San Diego dropped 56.3 percent between 1989 and 2000, according to the FBI Crime Index.

However, a separate Congressional Research Service report from last December said that although illegal immigration is down in San Diego, "the flow of illegal immigration has adapted" and "shifted to the more remote areas of the Arizona desert."

Critics and some proponents of a border fence have referenced the Berlin Wall - used to prevent emigration from communist East Germany to West Germany during the Cold War - which used draconian tactics, such as mines and shooting on sight.

However, a more appropriate comparison might be the Israeli West Bank Barrier, which measured 436 miles long and was used to keep out terrorists.

According to an Israeli government report, the wall was successful.

Between April and December of 2002 - before the wall - 17 suicide attacks were committed within Israel by terrorists who infiltrated from Samaria. Yet in 2003, after the construction of the Samaria section of the wall, there were only five attacks. In Judea, where no fence was built, suicide attacks remained the constant, according to the report.

One group that isn't waiting on the federal government is the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, a citizen anti-illegal immigration group based in Arizona. Through volunteer work and donations, the group is constructing a double-layered fence on ranch land donated in Bisbee, Ariz., with material similar to the San Diego fence. They began two years ago, and now have 10 miles of fencing.

"It's not a virtual fence, it's a real fence," Minutemen Executive Director Al Garza told Cybercast News Service. "Our objective is to show the federal government it is not virtually impossible to stop the flow of illegal immigrants."


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; borderfence; duncanhunter; immigrantlist; immigration; wheresthefence
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1 posted on 09/06/2007 5:51:56 AM PDT by SJackson
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For comparison, a 135 mile fence being contemplated on the Israel-Egypt border is estimated to cost between $5 and $6 million a mile.

Israel considers building NIS 2.5 to 3 billion fence on Egyptian border

2 posted on 09/06/2007 5:54:12 AM PDT by SJackson (isolationism never was, never will be acceptable response to[expansionist] tyrannical governments)
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To: SJackson

This ain’t rocket science.......unless the government gets involved............


3 posted on 09/06/2007 5:54:43 AM PDT by Red Badger (ALL that CARBON in ALL that oil & coal was once in the atmospere. We're just putting it back!)
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To: SJackson
All it takes is DESIRE to build it.

America built, dug, fabricated, excavated, welded, reburied, and covered over 5000 MILES of oil and gas piping in the MIDDLE of WWII - at the same time it was building over 540 airfields and hundreds of Army and navy bases and over 30,000 ships.

4 posted on 09/06/2007 5:56:06 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: SJackson
Building a fence across the entire 1,952-mile border of the United States and Mexico can be done, with only two requirements needed, according to engineers. "All it takes is time and money."...

Hello? Location, location, location! And that's not meant as a joke. Of the little fencing that has been built, it was reported, a few miles of it was built on the wrong side of the border and will likely be torn down by the Mexican authorities. SO spend the money and the time, but build it on our side of the border too.

5 posted on 09/06/2007 5:57:53 AM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: SJackson
Building a fence across the entire 1,952-mile border of the United States and Mexico can be done

Duncan Hunter has known this for a long time from his own experience.
6 posted on 09/06/2007 5:59:46 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: SJackson

Engineering the fence is child’s play and everyone knows it. The people who say it’s pointless because the Mexicans will get over anyway are like saying we should have bank security because people will rob banks anyway. Believe me, a solid fence will make it a lot harder, and that it the idea.


7 posted on 09/06/2007 6:00:27 AM PDT by giobruno
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To: All

As long as we have a Liberal Globalist president....that fence isnt being built.

If we elect anyone besides Hunter or Tancredo, it wont get built after 2008, either.

Cant believe all those who are fessed to be strong on border security and preventing illegal alienism would support open-borders liberals like Rudy, Romney, McCain, CFR Fred, Brownback, Huckabee...etc


8 posted on 09/06/2007 6:01:57 AM PDT by UCFRoadWarrior (FantasyCollegeBlitz.com)
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To: SJackson

Whoops, I missed that, it ought to read “should not have bank security...”


9 posted on 09/06/2007 6:02:03 AM PDT by giobruno
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To: SJackson

Geeeeeeeeeez,we landed men on the moon 40 years ago,ya think we might be able to build a damn 350 mile fence across our southern border now ???


10 posted on 09/06/2007 6:02:11 AM PDT by Obie Wan
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To: SJackson

I’ll donate some of the money I was planning to put in my IRA and two weeks of my vacation time to provide free labor. Where do I sign up?


11 posted on 09/06/2007 6:03:59 AM PDT by Wage Slave (Good fences make good neighbors. -- Robert Frost)
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To: SJackson

Not with this President.


12 posted on 09/06/2007 6:06:15 AM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: SJackson

If fences don’t work at keeping people out, why has the government wasted so much money building them around its property inside the U.S.?


13 posted on 09/06/2007 6:08:15 AM PDT by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
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To: SJackson
IMMIGRATION: Great Wall of India

July 2, 2007 | Editorial

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1859975/posts

Like the United States, India has an immigration problem. India is a developing country with a booming economy. Its neighbor, Bangladesh, is an impoverished mess with 150 million people crammed onto what is mainly a flood plain about the size of upper New England plus Massachusetts. India surrounds Bangladesh on three sides; on the fourth is the Indian Ocean, which frequently stirs up catastrophic typhoons.

India’s per-capita income is about $730 a year, not much by American standards but twice that of Bangladesh, where nearly 60 million of its residents earn less than $1 a day. The result was a growing wave of people crossing from Bangladesh into India, including job-seekers and Islamic terrorists.

In the words of Ajai Sahni, head of the New Delhi-based Institute for Conflict Management, “India has enough nightmares of its own without adding to them.”

Something urgently needed to be done, and India went ahead and did it.

Without fuss, without bother, without much debate, India began building a fence all the way around its 2,050-mile border with Bangladesh. The fence consists of two rows of 10-foot-high barbed wire stretched between posts studded with spikes. Coils of barbed wire fill the space between the two rows. Work began in 2000, and about 1,550 miles of the fence has been completed.

Contrast that with the outcry and anguish in the United States over a plan to build a 700-mile fence across part of its border with Mexico. Contrast that with the inability of Congress to do anything about illegal immigration.

Last week’s failure of the immigration bill in the U.S. Senate means nothing is likely to be done until at least 2009. By then, work on India’s fence should just about be done.

 

Yes.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050112/j&k.htm#1

Infiltration down due to fencing

Tribune News Service

Srinagar, Kashmir (INDIA)

January 11, 2005

With about 14 months of ceasefire along the border in Jammu and Kashmir facilitating uninterrupted exercise of border fencing, the infiltration of militants has been curtailed to a great extent during the past six months. Nearly 45 infiltration attempts have been made along the LoC since July last year. The task of fencing the porous LoC along the rugged mountains to check the infiltration of militants was completed in a year by September last.

 

“The fence has added a new dimension in the battle against infiltration and exfiltration of militants, according to Army officials here. With the Army keeping an ever-constant vigil along the fence, crossing the border has become very tough for the militants. Sources here claimed that the security forces have seen groups of militants move up to the fence and then turn back realising that any attempt at crossing will be suicidal.

 

The fencing that prevented infiltration is also regarded as the main reason behind a decline in the violence in the state during the past year. However, “ the infiltration is there. It has not stopped”, said a senior police officer here, adding that the infiltration attempts by the militants from across the border were calibrated.

With the decline in the violence the past year has witnessed over 2500 incidents and over 700 civilian killings, which has been rated as the lowest level of violence since the eruption of militancy 15 years ago.

Not only the border fencing, various other measures like laying of landmines and possession of modern equipment and weaponry, have helped the Army to check the infiltration and exfiltration along the border. The sources said except for some populated areas, the entire border is laden with landmines. It has, however, been hazardous to many civilians living in the border areas injuring them or rendering them maimed over the years.

The Army is also equipped with world-class night vision devices, detection equipment, surveillance, alarm and communication system. The security forces have sought installation of more sensors made in Israel to effectively check any movement along the border.

 

The fencing was first attempted in 1994 on the pattern of Punjab and Rajasthan but was suspended due to cross border firing. Later it was restarted along the 198 km-long International Border in the Jammu region in 2001. The fencing along 778 km of the LoC in Kashmir was taken up in 2003 and completed after one year in September last year, according to the sources here.

In order to ensure deterring and detecting the infiltrators or exfiltrators, two systems have been conceived. These are the anti-infiltration obstacle system, which is an integration of an electrified fence incorporated with an “anti-intrusion alarm system”. Moreover, there is “hi-tech surveillance and communication clubbed with the deployment of troops so as to cover the fence with little or no gaps”, said the sources.


 


14 posted on 09/06/2007 6:08:51 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Obie Wan

“Geeeeeeeeeez,we landed men on the moon 40 years ago,ya think we might be able to build a damn 350 mile fence across our southern border now ???”

We can’t do this, as lettuce and chicken may cost more.


15 posted on 09/06/2007 6:09:22 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Never bring a knife to a gun fight, or a Democrat to do serious work...)
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To: SJackson

Someone! Anyone! Please! Give this “problem” to Jamie and Adam from Mythbusters...and that fence will be up in a week, guarded by solar-powered robot dogs. ;)

(This is SO frustrating, isn’t it?)


16 posted on 09/06/2007 6:11:03 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Yes, yes, yes.
The Alcan highway was build in short order during WWII.
17 posted on 09/06/2007 6:13:13 AM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: SampleMan

If fences don’t work, why is one arond the White House?


18 posted on 09/06/2007 6:14:02 AM PDT by Plains Drifter (If guns kill people, wouldn't there be a lot of dead people at gun shows?)
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To: SJackson

Bass ackwards Congressmen just don’t get it. Border security is fundamental in a war with terrorists.


19 posted on 09/06/2007 6:14:50 AM PDT by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: SampleMan
If fences don’t work at keeping people out, why has the government wasted so much money building them around its property inside the U.S.?

The government might as well start by tearing down that fence around the white house and then procede with military bases.

20 posted on 09/06/2007 6:16:09 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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