Posted on 09/10/2007 4:01:17 AM PDT by WesternCulture
Norway's oil-fuelled economic growth has outpaced all other western countries durng the past four years, and statistics experts think the good times will keep on rolling.
(Excerpt) Read more at aftenposten.no ...
- Sweden, a Scandinavian country which LACKS oil, boasts an economic growth of 16% over the last four years, while the US, a nation which HAS A LOT OF OIL grew by only 13% during the same period.
- Libya, the richest country in Africa, has a population about the size of Norway’s, is located nearly as close as Norway is to the giant EU market and dispose of even LARGER oil reserves than Norway does. STILL, the (nominal) GDP/capita of Norway is almost NINE times that of Libya!
For an extended argument of mine on this topic;
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1864973/posts
(My initial comment to another Aftenposten article on the fact that Norway can claim the most dollar millionaires per capita in the world)
So, is Scandinavian Socialism better than American Capitalism? No way, but Scandinavian engagement in education, global competition, investment, research, technology, the creation of business friendly environments and not the least cooperation between government, the business sector, unions and universities
sure have paid off.
Scandinavia is evidence Capitalism works, even when consumers/voters choose to finance a large portion of their consumption of education, health care, child care etc through paying very high sales taxes (in fact income taxes are not that extreme in Scandinavia and corporate taxes are comparatively low, way lower than in the US) - fiscal policies no one have forced upon them, but policies they have voted for themselves in democratic elections.
However, US Americans should not pay attentions to Europeans and American Liberals/Socialism who claim the US should adopt Scandinavian welfare solutions. The US will never become like Scandinavia (or vice versa) out of cultural and historical reasons. We can learn from each other, but countries also need to remain true to their core national values (like the fruitful tradition of ‘small government’ in US history).
What all Americans and Europeans could learn from Scandinavia is that a nation that truly focuses on creating successful, Capitalist corporations and spend a lot of money on the education of their workforce increases its competitiveness in todays globalized world.
Are they spending on defense? What happens when Ivan decides he wants their oil?
LLS
Exactly. Their military is very weak and they have a tiny population and land mass. Socialism doesn’t work in the long run.
They should work more on diversifying their economy, though.
Without oil revenues, their socialistic social policies will eat their economy alive. With the revenues, they just pay more for some consumer goods than most other countries.
Believe me, their national healthcare system is not any better than Britain’s.
Russia would hardly start a war with NATO over Norwegian oil reserves.
“Socialism doesn’t work in the long run.”
- Agree, but what has that got to do with Norway?
Norway is less Socialist than a lot of people seem to think. They have higher taxes on cars, gas and higher sales taxes than the US, but about the same income taxes and way lower corporate taxes and Norway is, furthermore, home to more dollar millionaires per capita than any other country.
These millionaires have become rich through intelligent investments in areas like stock, real estate, construction, shipping, manufacturing, services etc.
Norway has become rich from adapting a Capitalist societal model in a globalized business environment.
Norway has probably got a higher proportion of intelligent and skilled investors, managers and entrepreneurs than most other countries. That doesn’t sound like a Socialist national trait to me.
“Without oil revenues, their socialistic social policies will eat their economy alive. With the revenues, they just pay more for some consumer goods than most other countries.”
- Hardly. Look at nations like neighboring Finland and Sweden, two Scandinavian countries which lack oil but are growing faster than the US and much faster than most other of the industrialized nations on earth.
Some people think nationalized health care and education equals Socialism, but this is nonsense. The Scandinavian countries are successful basically because they’re good at running Capitalist companies. People who work in government controlled education, health care, child care etc are often hard working, competent people as well, therefore all of society function comparatively well.
“Believe me, their national healthcare system is not any better than Britain’s.”
- Many Norwegians would probably agree. Norway might be the richest country in Scandinavia, but Denmark and Sweden probably have better health care.
I have been to Norway and some of what you say is true... it is also true that they are socialist practicing Capitalism.
LLS
They should work more on diversifying their economy, though.”
- In fact, it is rather diversified. Only 3 percent of the labor force are oil industry workers.
A lot of Norwegians work in other lucrative businesses like shipping, shipbuilding, the fishing industry, mining, manufacturing, the forest industry, investment and trade etc.
Norway can’t compete with nations like Sweden and Germany when it comes to creating value-added industrial output (through refining raw materials into advanced products like cars, airplanes, machinery, locomotives, etc), but they are much more competent in this field than most other oil exporting countries.
Privatize education, emphasize the sciences and problem solving over "self-esteem." This will compliment the great American tradition of rugged individualism over the therapeutic State that has reigned supreme since the end of WWII.
Also keep in mind that you Swedes have been on a privatization/deregulation streak over the past decade and a half that has allowed you to “jump ahead” of many others in terms of economic growth. Nevertheless, I’ve seen how Swedes live (small houses and apartments, little conspicuous consumption) and would not trade what I have here for that. I also don’t like getting scolded when I honk my horn, something that your cousins who settled in the upper Midwest of our country tend to do to me as well.
- Personally, I believe it’s possible to educate more or less any healthy child into a decent, well functioning citizen. But in order to achieve this, competent teachers are needed and things like drugs and crime must not interfere with the process.
Guess most people would agree. The problem is, of course, how to achieve this. I certainly do NOT believe in Liberal nonsense about making pupils “feel good about themselves” instead of acquiring real knowledge. Would you say the Bush administration has achieved a lot of improvements in this area or do you think little has been done since the Clinton years?
“small houses and apartments, little conspicuous consumption”
- An average American house is today around 2,500 square feet, that would not be considered big in Sweden of today (but 25 years ago it would - just like in the US, houses are getting bigger in my country).
However, 2,500 square feet might be somewhat bigger than an average Swedish house. On the other hand, a lot of Swedes, even those who live in apartments/condos own a “summer house” while most Americans don’t. Swedes probably have somewhat more of total living space than Americans. Some Swedes live in apartments/condos, yes, but so do a lot of Americans. For instance, look at a city like NYC or Chicago. Every US American doesn’t own a 2,500 sq feet house.
Secondly, what is it that you believe Americans afford to consume so much more of than Swedes? Prices on a lot of consumer goods are lower in the US, but so are wages.
- Many Western countries are run by soulless bureaucrats. The US isn’t an exception. Still, I prefer The West (whether we’re talking Sweden or the US) to the corruption of Latin America and Africa, the mullahs of Iran or the insane regimes of Cuba and North Korea.
Europeans have been conditioned by centuries of servitude to the state to accept the dictates of the state and whatever crumbs the state chooses to leave to the people.”
- I agree, to some extent.
Americans are, by tradition, more hostile to the ideas of ‘big governments’ than Europeans. But Europeans rebel a lot, although especially in Western Europe the wrong kind of people often rebel for the wrong reasons. Just look at Socialists and French farmers.
The Eastern Europeans, on the other hand, didn’t hesitate to overthrow their despotic governments recently and I hope they’ve still got much of that spirit left.
One reason many ordinary Europeans might put too much of trust in strong governments is the fact that alliances between common people and a strong ruler (often a monarch) was the only way of counteracting the ambitions of the nobility in history, together with the fact that strong leadership often was needed in times of war.
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