Posted on 09/21/2007 9:56:24 AM PDT by Bushwacker777
"A priest in Stockholm has come under fire for not allowing a bride to be walked down the aisle by her father. But church authorities have defended the decision, saying that the tradition is foreign and sexist.
The row started when a bride due to marry on Saturday in a church in the Stockholm archipelago asked to be given away by her father. The priest conducting the ceremony refused the bride's request.
"These are two equal people, and being given away has never been a Swedish tradition," said Rev Yvonne Hallin, priest in charge of the Church of Sweden parish of Djurö, near Stockholm."
(Excerpt) Read more at thelocal.se ...
Then who answers the question:
Who giveth away this bride?..........
She’s not really a priest; she’s a minister.
And, not a very good minister, at that.
Did you expect the "reporter" to get the fact straight?
Herself?
But is she Christian?
Sweden is 85% atheist/agnostic. I am surprised they even have churches any more.
If foreign and sexist traditions are illegal in Sweden, why does Sweden permit the presence of hundreds of thousands of hardline Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims in the country?
Moreover the giving away of the bride is an ancient custom among Scandinavians as well as other peoples.
In Scandinavian history, the groom's family paid the bride's father a bride-price called mundr before he allowed them to join hands in marriage.
By the Christian period, the mundr was symbolic - a demonstration by the groom that he had sufficient resources to provide for his bride.
The giving away of the bride survived as a symbolic gesture - basically of a father agreeing that the groom was accepted by the bride's family.
That’s the English and American tradition, to be sure. If you read the whole article, you’ll see that traditionally the bride and groom walk down the aisle together in Sweden. Different strokes, as they say. Still, it was ungracious of the priestess not to let the couple do it ‘their way’....
Do they throw rice at the newly weds or fish?.............
LOL
Ordaining wymen has never been a Swedish tradition either....
Dunno 'bout that. Part of a priest's job is to ensure that the proper forms are followed. My priest friend has been asked (and refused) to do a lot of interesting wedding "enhancements."
This one doesn't seem all that injurious, but I don't know how Swedes have traditionally done things, either.
Give away the bride? NO! SELL THEM!
Why would you throw rice at fish?
How many weddings have you ever been to where they have a stocked pond?
Our very bright, well educated (genetics PhD) daughter was proud and honored to be given away by her father. When the priest suggested that both sets of parents walk their respective children down the aisle, she firmly replied that her daddy had waited all her life for that honor and she would not clutter it up with some modern inclusive crap. And yes, that’s a quote.
HERB-BAKED FISH & RICE
1 1/2 c. hot herb or chicken bouillon
1/2 c. uncooked reg. rice
1/4 tsp. Italian seasoning
1/4 tsp. garlic powder
1 pkg. (10 oz.) frozen chopped broccoli, thawed & drained
1 can (2.8 oz.) French fried onions
1 tbsp. grated Parmesan cheese
1 lb. unbreaded fish fillets, thawed if frozen
Paprika (opt.)
1/2 c. (2 oz.) shredded cheddar cheese
Preheat oven to 375 degrees. In 8 x 12 inch baking dish, combine hot bouillon, uncooked rice and seasoning. Bake, covered, at 375 degrees for 10 minutes. Top with broccoli, 1/2 can French fried onions and the Parmesan cheese. Place fish fillets diagonally down center of dish; sprinkle fish lightly with paprika.
Bake covered at 375 degrees for 20 to 25 minutes or until fish flakes easily with fork. Stir rice. Top with cheddar cheese and remaining onions; bake, uncovered, 3 minutes or until onions are golden brown. Preparation time: 10 minutes. Makes 3 to 4 serving
It’s the bride’s wedding. If she wants her father to give her away, that’s her prerogative.
How about goldfish in the Holy Water?.................
It’s really a survival of the concept — still prevalent today in Muslim lands — the women are the property of their fathers until their fathers transfer ownership of them to their husbands. Really not a great idea to retain traditions that give tacit support to that worldview.
I had my parents walk down the aisle together in front of me. I didn’t want my father to walk me down the aisle because we never had a close relationship. And at age 30-something when I got married, I didn’t feel like my parents were “giving me away.” The tradition just doesn’t work for everyone. That being said, the couple in the article should have been able to get married in the manner they chose.
??? Since when do we support the idea that churches should be required to violate their principles in order to let a bride, or anyone else, do whatever they want on church property and/or during a church ceremony or service?
Actually, I'm glad the priest stood up for what her church believes in. You and I may or may not agree with that church's beliefs, but I don't expect the church to have to change to accomodate everyone's wishes. What if it was two guys who wanted to marry each other or if it was a couple that wanted to have a Hindu ceremony in the church. Would it have been ungracious for the priest to refuse to let them do it "their way"?
The Church of Sweden is nominally Lutheran. The question is: why would any Lutheran with enough sense of tradition to want to be “given away” by her father also want to be married by a priestess?
OH! a woman feminist new age lesbo dyke priest...
Why not change churches and get married in another church? Chances are if there’s disagreement with this feminazi over this, there will be disagreements over other issues...
I suppose it's pedantic to remind you that you're demanding theological consistency from a bride.... IMO, a bride's wedding demands have chiefly to do with her emotional fulfillment.
Whatever her feelings about priestesses, her wanting to be "given away" sound to me more like she wants to express her love for her father -- an emotional thing, and not a matter of sexism.
I’m Lutheran, and part swedish. Yes, really. My husband and I walked down the aisle together. I stopped and hugged my parents, the same as he did, but no one “gave me away”. That even sounds wrong to me.
A priest named Reverend Yvonne?
Was Woden invoked during the ceremony?
Not really.
In Germanic culture the father had a responsibility to provide for his daughter and protect her and his giving her away to a groom represented his assessment that the groom would provide for her and protect her adequately.
In Muslim lands it is still the common practice to (1) only give the bride away to a family that you have control or leverage over and (2) to obtain the highest price for her possible, (3) the bride-price is paid to the bride's family.
In Germanic law the bride-price was set at a certain number of ounces of silver for all suitors - an amount that represented the suitors ability to feed and shelter a wife and children. The money was not for the bride's family - it was for the bride herself.
In Norway in the 900s the rate was 12 ounces of silver.
If a suitor demonstrated that he met the rate and the bride consented, they were betrothed and that was that - even if another suitor arrived with 120 ounces of silver. Once betrothed, the father could not break the betrothal.
In the Muslim world, it does not matter if a man demonstrates that he can support his intended - he can be outbid by a greedy father-in-law.
The two codes are significantly different and have different moral significance.
The Vikings all left Sweden a long time ago. The dandys left behind are more interested in their behinds than their past.
"Her church" is the state-sponsored Lutheran Church of Sweden.
This ban on giving away the bride is not part of Lutheran doctrine, but a reflection of her own personal prejudices.
She was defending her own bias, not the Augsburg Confession or the Uppsala Synod.
My father-in-law gave me my wife and I will give my daughters to their husbands.
What wrong did he commit?
What wrong would I be committing?
We don't, because in the USA the taxpayers do not subsidize any of our churches.
In Sweden, the Church of Sweden is paid for by the taxpayers.
So a taxpayer should have a right in Sweden to request a ceremony that is fully in keeping with the liturgical books that he pays for and which is a standard practice in throughout other congregations in Sweden.
The minister in this case is a public servant, and should accomodate reasonable requests from the public that pays her salary.
Good for your daughter.
With that worldview, the Swedes themselves will become not only an anachronism, but extinct.
Then we'll have to re-write the old joke:
"Why are there no Arabs on Star Trek? Because it takes place in the future."
to read:
"Why are there no Swedes on Star Trek?..."
You get the idea.
This is a problem that can be traced to, and solved by the members of this priest’s parish. It’s their fault he’s been allowed to become an authority figure in what is, in reality, their parish. Their money, given in collecton, supports it. They need to seize this idiot, remove him from the building and either duct tape him to the sidewalk in front, or wrap him in heat-shrink plastic and deliver him back to the church’s regional headquarters, and demand a new model under the Lemon Law. No congregation should let its priest make such rulings. If the diocese has a problem with this, dry up all funding. Even in religion, money talks. Priests are there for assisting in the salvation of souls, and as a conduit to and from God. Period.
Having been the father of the bride, I can confirm how important it was, not only to me but to my little girl and the new man in her life to benefit from the visible act of approval instinct in my giving her away. Had the officiant prohibitted that part of the service, we would have gone elsewhere (of course, had the officiant been a Lutheran priestess, my head would have exploded and I wouldn’t have been able to give my daughter away either).
I hope you'll excuse my mental picture of Mr. Lucky's daughter dragging his headless corpse down the aisle by his left foot.... ;-)
Why not? Children are chattel.
This is probably an official policy of the ministry which oversees the church.
Yes, but from what I understand, it is very common in Sweden to live together, have children, yet not be officially married. In other words, monogamy has withstood the deChristianization of Sweden.
ARRRRRGH!!! If that country weren’t full of hot, sexy blondes, I would urge the muslim residents to take over! A country that PC is ripe for a takeover.
another beautiful gesture is at the altar, for the father to quietly take his daughter’s hand and place it the grooms hand.
As if to say, “take this daughter of mine to love and cherish as I have all these years.”
Maybe the bride should tell the female minister that her father is gay.
15% is enough to keep things going. Actually, I’m surprised it is that high.
Excellent point!
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