Posted on 09/26/2007 10:49:43 AM PDT by blam
I figured Finland, but maybe that’s too obvious? :-)
Well, one has to wonder what came first, the chicken or the egg.
Since this part of Europe was overrun by all sorts
of invaders...Romans, Turks, even the French, I can understand how pockets of ethnicity and language might have developed.
I should correct my statement about Karelo-Finish being closest to Hungarian.
I recall it being said that Hungarian was second only to Karelo-Finish in the difficulty of learning the language.
In Swedish and Finnish universities, Licentiate's degree equals completion of the coursework required for a doctorate and a dissertation formally equivalent to half of a doctoral dissertation, likened to a MPhil degree in the British system.
The licentiate is particularly popular with students already involved in the working life, such that completing a full doctor's dissertation while working would be too difficult. The Licentiate's degree is called a filosofie licentiat in Swedish and filosofian lisensiaatti in Finnish (Licentiate of Philosophy), teologie licentiat and teologian lisensiaatti (Licentiate of Theology) etc, depending on the faculty.
Furthermore, the requisite degree for a physician's license is lisensiaatti; there is no Master's degree. (The degree lääketieteen tohtori "Doctor of Medicine" is a traditional "professors degree", or a research doctorate, with Licentiate as a prerequisite.)
If we don't, y'all gonna finish us off?
It is possible and very likely people of different or mixed race abandon their own language and speak whatever the language of the area. I find it is fascinating that America, England, and Australia common language is English but their accent is totally different. The tone came about just 200-300 hundred years. The American and Australian accent did not exist before that.
Another example: It it like the people of North Eastern Thailand. The people there are Lao of Isan (30 million of them). They are not the same or speak same language as the people of central Thais or Bangkok Thais. Just across the Mekong river is the country Laos PDR (6 million people). They and Isan people speak the same language. But Lao of Isan have some Thai accent and use many Thai words as well.
The Magyars settled in their present-day homeland in A.D. 896.
From Sawbucks!
You get two Finns from a Sawbuck.
Project Background:
The Saami's genetic distinctiveness from other European populations have made them some of the most genetically mapped indigenous populations and they are NOT as believed in classical theories and popular myth of Siberian and Asian origin, but are genetically Europeans.
Their genetics shows signs of strong foundereffects and genetic drift due to their isolation and small non-expanding population. The Saami mtDNA and Y-chromosomal are totally dominated by the maternal hg V and U5b1b1, and the paternal hg I1a and N3a.
Today the Saami culture as seen in language is quickly dimishing and is only alive in some remote locations in the far north. In recorded history the Saami culture where found almost all over Fenoscandia influencing the early Nordic and Finnish cultures in the south.
This projects goal is to gather genetic data found within the Saami areas as well as genetic footprint outside these areas combining it with geneological depth. You may join if a) your a Saami b) suspect your Saami from family oral or written history c) DNA result strongly suggest your your direct father or mother line was a Saami.
The suggested immigration route for Saami Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups:
Speaking of the Hungarians, the most common expression for the Germans in WW1 and 2 used by the British, Churchill, etc., was “Huns.” Where did that come from anybody know? Germans aren’t Hungarians or descendants of Attila the Hun. At least that I’m aware of.
About the Finlanders. They win my admiration for their great stand against Russia in WW2. They fought them to a standstill in the snow, and won...for a while, until Russia eventually defeated them by overwhelming numbers. Great fighters, the Finns.
All I can figure out is they left without women and acquired the greater part of their genetic background by purchasing/stealing brides ~ this is much like what the ancient Greeks and Trojans seem to have thought women useful for ~ slavery and trade goods (just in case anybody says "it's just not probable for the Huns to have captured brides".
Of course it's "probable".
In doing whatever it was they were doing the Huns even lost their original Chinese language and picked up a creole of vaguely Indo-European and Uralic-Altaic origin.
Because the Huns did this within the scope of history we are able to ascertain how "culture" can be transmitted from generation to generation without respect to the nations of origin, or the race of the participants.
Churchill is the guy who is responsible for calling the Germans "Huns" ~ he did it as an insult.
The Germans thought it quite inspirational.
Adam, Eve and mitochondrial DNA
M. Ismail Sloan
Hamdan Street
PO Box 5243
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
Tel: 011-9712-826311
March 19, 1988
Bill Christophersen
Newsweek Magazine
444 Madison Avenue
New York NY 10022
USA
Dear Mr. Christophersen,
Thank you so much for your detailed response, dated February 2nd, to my letter of January 11th regarding your cover story about the “Eve hypothesis” in Newsweek Magazine of the same date.
If you assume that at some point in human history there were 256,000 women in the world (as convenient a number as any), and that each one of these women had different mitochondrial DNA (which is passed on only by female offspring), and that each woman produced exactly two surviving children, and that 50% of all surviving children were female and that this continued for at least several thousand years, we see the following:
After one generation, 25% (or 64,000) of the mitochondrial DNAs have become extinct because those mothers produced two sons; 25 % (or 64,000) have two surviving examples (two daughters) and 50% have one surviving example (one daughter and one son).
After the second generation, 25% of those 64,000 which had two examples also produced two daughters, so now there are 4,000 (25% times 25% times 64,000) types of mitochondrial DNA with four examples each. There are also 16,000 DNAs with three examples each, 24,000 plus 32,000 (56,000) with two examples each, 16,000 plus 64,000 (80,000) with one example each and 4,000 plus 32,000 (36,000) more which have become extinct.
I hope you are able to follow what I just said. It comes from high school algebra, where (x + y) squared = x squared + 2xy + y squared and (x + y ) 4th = x (4) + 4x(3)y + 6x(2)y(2) +4xy(3) + y(4) and so on.
Thus, it can be seen that after only two generations, 100,000 varieties of mitochondrial DNAs have already become extinct, 64,000 in the first generation and 36,000 in the second generation.
After the third generation, there will be only 15.625 types of DNA with eight examples each (25% times 25% times 25% times 25% times 4,000), 500 with seven examples each and so on, while 15.625 + 250 + 3,500 + 20,000 = 23,765.625 more types will have become extinct.
As noted above, after just three generations, nearly half of the different types of DNA have become extinct. Therefore, three generations might be thought of as a “half-life” of a variety of mitochondrial DNA. (I realize that this is not exactly right). Since 2 to the 18th power equals 262,144, it might take only 54 generations (18 times 3) for 252,144 types of DNA to be reduced to just one.
In real life, of course, every woman does not have exactly two children. In some underdeveloped countries where I have been, there is still no birth control and no doctors. In such places, 10% to 20% of all women die in childbirth even in this modern age (usually while giving birth to the first child), while a tiny percentage of women give birth to ten or more children. Applying such more realistic data and assuming a high percentage of women dying in childbirth in pre-historic times, while the overall population still remain stable, it will be seen that the rate of reduction of the number of different types of mitochondrial DNA is even more rapid.
Now, you say in the article that the existence of only one type of mitochondrial DNA shows that there was “little or no mixing”. I, however, believe that this shows exactly the opposite. Consider the country of Iceland, which was settled starting in 874 AD and which, after the initial settlement period, has had virtually no immigration. If you ask around, you will find that any two given Icelandic persons will be able to find one common ancestor just a few generations back. One reason for this is that the Icelanders discovered free sex hundreds of years before it became popular in other countries. Traditionally, the vast majority of women in Iceland have their first child prior to getting married, and then get married to a man other than the father of their first child. As a result, because of this mixing, Iceland has perhaps the most homogeneous population of any country in the world.
If there were no mixing, there would still be isolated pockets in the world with different types of mitochondrial DNA. Only with free mixing would these pockets disappear.
Going back to the initial mathematics, I think that it would not be too difficult to write a computer program to show how long it would take for all but one type of mitochondrial DNA to become extinct. My rough guess, however, is that it would take just about exactly 200,000 years.. Therefore, I conclude that your expert’s discovery that all mitochondrial DNA still in existence are derived from just one original example which existed 200,000 years ago, tells us exactly nothing about the origins and history of the human race, except that the human race must be at least 200,000 years old (which we know already).
Very Truly Yours,
M. Ismail Sloan
One such gene is for Celiac Disease ~ and the other such gene has to do with how the liver processes heme. There are 86 variations, with 85 of them having an Arctic origin.
A number of Swedish businessmen have told me that every project team or work group in Sweden must include at least one Finn - otherwise everyone else would fall asleep.
Negotiating with them certainly seemed to support that theory - I'll trade four Swedes and your choice of Swiss for a single Finn.
(Price reduced from seven to four and no one who'd actually experienced the Swiss would want even one - so that part of the deal is just decoration.)
My interest was piqued when I had my DNA analysed and realized that my mtDNA is haplogroup 'V' which is the same as 68.4% of the Norrbotten Sa'ami and 52% of the Skolt Sa'ami. I have Sa'ami mtDNA (mother) and Irish (R1b) yDNA (dad).
The Sa'ami connection was a total suprise to everyone in my family.
I just got the results of my dad's mothers DNA and she has mtDNA U5a1a which is spread about equally between Scotland and Finland and I read today that it probably spread across this region when Scotland was still connected to the European continent...before the end of the Ice Age.
Overall, the highest mtDNA amoung the Sa'ami is mtDNA U5b1 -- yDNA I1a and is referred to as the 'Sa'ami Motif'.
Also interesting...9,000 year old Cheddar Man is mtDNA U5a and related to my dad's mother.
####East Europeans have small teeth compared with the relatively large teeth of the Scandinavian####
They must never have heard of Count Dracula of Transylvania.
Finnish was J.R.R.Tolkien’s favorite language. I’ve read in more than one place that he based some Elvish on Finnish, but I believe Welsh also entered in on the creation.
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