These men are all mathematicians. They may not be the greatest mathematicians, but I have concrete evidence that one of them is a lot smarter than me.:
Posted on 10/17/2007 1:36:52 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
Watson is an atheist. I betcha he hates evangelicals and Catholics too.
... but ... but... but... the math and science measured by these tests are categories of thought formed by Western Imperialism and not objective - indeed even the idea of objectivity is Western ... you need to understand that other cultures have equally valid ideas about the world that may not be consistent with these Western Imperialist constructs.... < /sarcasm>
There may be more, but Australia, Sub Saharan Africa, and the population of early North America are among areas where the 3 Rs never made much of an appearance......in a fashion we generally consider 'civilised'.....Not sure the wheel showed up either in those places.......
Yet, if he said that black people were better athletes, and could dance better than white people, you would chuckle and nod your head in agreement.
These men are all mathematicians. They may not be the greatest mathematicians, but I have concrete evidence that one of them is a lot smarter than me.:
“I guess the only way to describe it is book smart vs. street smart, is the Nigerian scammer with only his street smarts who empties your bank account any less intelligent than the WASP businessman who lets him?”
Intelligence usually refers to “capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc”. Intelligence is different than wisdom, common sense, knowledge or education.
Just as its offensive for a Yale weanie to say a Southern person is not as intelligent its equally offensive to say one race is less intelligent. That attitude goes against what made America the greatest nation on earth. Its saying that one person does not have the capacity another has. Thats applying a class structure upon our population.
Certain cultures emphasize different types of knowledge. That doesn’t mean one culture has less intellectual capacity than another.
“That is stupid. Count the thousands of brilliant scientists coming out of Africa.”
Wow, its amazing to see this kinda racism on FR. The lack of scientists coming from Africa has nothing to do with intelligence. It has to do with lack of schools, broken cultures, corruption, civil wars, and rampant disease destroying any progress that is made in the above.
Do you understand the difference between "empirical" and "anecdotal"?
What on earth are you talking about....
Oh PC Speak...Sorry.. I get it, I do not want anyone to call me a sexist, racicist, bigot... so I shall Kowtow and deny the truth of what is..
Reality no longer matters only feel good fantasy...
The world grows flatter by the day...(and more dangerous)
W
“Oh PC Speak...Sorry.. I get it, I do not want anyone to call me a sexist, racicist, bigot... so I shall Kowtow and deny the truth of what is..”
Ahhh truth with a capital T
I tried to make myself clear that I believe there are exceptionally bright people of all races - just perhaps more or fewer of them as a percentage of any given group. I've known several blacks with 140+ IQs and one with a 160+ IQ (who grew up wealthy, but eccentrically chooses to be more or less a bum but has successfully written PhD dissertations in the sciences for hire ... but that's another story), so I don't doubt there are some numbers of black mathematicians who are much brighter than I am. Smartest mathematician I knew personally was Ky Fan, who was part of Bourbaki, who was truly scary smart (don't listen to the words, just follow the flying fingers on the board, take copious notes and figure it out later....). I also know some mathematicians who, though bright (~135 IQ), are not all that bright. I think to do creative work in mathematics probably requires a 150+ IQ. I don't 'do' mathematics anymore, but have some idea what it takes - having taken myself from 8 year rusty Calc I to real analysis, topolgy and measure theory in about eight months. Hardest I've ever worked in my life.
Your comment reminds me, didn't Al Gore Junior, "Environmentalist", get lost in some national park and require a several hour manhunt to be located? I think late 1990s or probably early 21st century.
Its the attitudes displayed in this thread that give racists of all colors the ammunition they need to continue preferential treatment of individuals based on their race.
Stop putting people into categories and demand people succeed on their own merit. Perhaps then white people will be given equal opportunity for things like college admissions and hiring.
You are confusing education/traits with intelligence. Some breeds of dogs are more intelligent than others.
As far as the PhD vs the illiterate there is no intelliegence contest there. One is educated and one is not. The illiterate ould be far more intelligent than the PhD.
The more you talk, sir, the sooner they'll find 'em!
You mean, if we want to stop racism, we should stop considering/noticing race?
What a novel idea!
LIBERAL RESPONSE: What can be done to correct this inequity???
I have read that poor nutrition during pregnancy, and the first few years of life have a detrimental effect on the development of the brain. There are a lot of nutritional problems in many parts of Africa.
However, the problem arises if, say, thousands of Aborigines migrate to Finland. They don’t do very well on tests to get into college or to get high paying jobs. The cry then goes up to give them quotas because it’s unthinkable to suggest that they might just not be as adept at physics, chemistry, business management, or accounting as Finns.
To be honest with you, such threads make me ‘happy.’ Why? Well, they enable me to be exposed to a wide variety of opinions that range from the evidently veritable to the clearly asinine (and all ranges in between). Articles on intelligence (particularly racial stratification on the same) draw more people (and types of people) out than virtually any article that doesn’t have to do with Slick Willie’s infidelity, dictators being found in spider-holes, or a picture of Ted Kennedy’s fat behind.
To make things even better you said that he was talking about Africa’s population. The sheer hilarity of that statement stems from the fact that ‘Africa’s population’ is the MOST genetically diverse grouping of people on the planet. Thus the sheer grouping of all those people into one homogenous block is quite interesting (although not surprising ….i cannot count the number of times that people have asked me about Africa as if it is one single country, even when the differences in sub-regions can be prodigious).
Take me for instance – I was born and raised (up to the age of 20) in Africa. I am comprised of 4 tribes – 3 are Kenyan (Kikuyu, Ndorobo and Maasai) and one is Ehtiopian (Amhara). Of those tribes, 2 are Bantu, 1 is Nilote, and the other is Cushite. In essence, the major regional groupings in Africa (analogous to being part white, part Asian, and part Aborigine). Looking at the Bantu tribes by themselves, there is so much genetic variety that one study showed that a particularly tribe had closer genetic leanings to Scots than to another Bantu tribe.
When it comes to intellect I have to say that I do not consider myself lacking. My IQ is at Mensa level (although I consider IQ tests pure folly, one of the truly obstreperous applications of ‘science’ in the world ….oh, and don’t get me started on its twin …the so called ‘lie-detecting’ polygraph tests that are so easy to pass it is a joke – I would know). I have achieved a lot in my life, even at my age. Consequently I always find it humorous when I read studies stating that I should be dumber than I am because of some test.
The next thing I am always told is that I am an outlier (one kid actually told me that in my freshman year at college ….i was somewhat different). Funny thing is that in Kenya, where I am from, I had to struggle a bit just to keep up because the schools I went to were full of people like me.
Oh, and on Africa. Guess which group in the US is amongst the most successful immigrant groups. Hmmm ….yep, AFRICAN immigrants. They come in, do ‘small’ jobs to get things moving (e.g. nursing homes, etc), and then once they get their $h!t together they move to bigger better things. One of my personal friends (also from Africa) bought the nursing home he was working in in Oklahoma City after pooling money from the other Africans working there.
The next thing I here is that the ones who go Stateside are the ‘best’ …the cream of the crop and all that jazz. Truth is (at least for Kenya), they are ‘merely’ the lucky ones. The nation (I can only speak for Kenya …..unlike some on this thread I do not claim to know all of Africa, just enough to know that the continent is not one homogenous block of like-minded gerbils) has a whole lot of people who have done quite well in the nation, and anyone who can make it big in Kenya would easily do better in the US (again, I would know ….there is little competition, a lot of opportunity, and a lot of corporations willing to hire hardworking intelligent people who look like African-Americans and thus kill two birds with one stone).
Now, Africa does have some very dumb people (in all the countries), as does the rest of the world. One of the major differences though is that in Africa many of the leaders happen to be VERY dumb as well, which makes a huge difference. When nations have leaders that have the intellect of a beetroot then you have significant problems that percolate downward, and the problem with Africa is that it will take at least another half-generation for these leaders to be replaced (and it is happening, which is good news …..and it has already happened when it comes to corporate leadership, which is why a number of the African bourses and economies are doing so well, and why a lot of institutional investor attention is shifting to Africa …it will just take extra time for the same to happen in political leadership. But the fact that it happened in the corporate/economic side of things fosters hope that things should also happen in the political arena). The rest of the world (particularly the West) has been blessed with strong corporate and political leadership (if you think the Democrats are bad then try replacing Nancy Pelosi with Robert Mugabe and see what happens ….some of the ‘bad’ political leadership in the West would seem like veritable boons to some African nations).
Anyways, on intellect. Simply put, there are more differences between Africans in one country than amongst your typical American and the typical Japanese. Africa is not one homogenous block. There are many Africans who are doing quite well and would thrive in the US (easily ….so easily that in the US I knew a bunch of racist Africans who looked down on people – any race – who were struggling yet they were surrounded by so much opportunity).
Finally on intellect. Intelligence, and its application, is dependent on the value one puts on it. The reason why Asians are said to do well is primarily due to nurture ….a lot of emphasis is put on education and performance by the Asian community, and thus that will translate to greater educational exposure.
A simple experiment can confirm this ….go to a diverse community (say a typical LA or New York school district) and find a high school. Then go to the library and see who is studying. Then go to the basketball court and see who is playing. Then have a look at the SAT results …..I’d bet you good money that the results will be a reflection of the dispersion you observed between those studying in the library and those playing basketball at the courts.
That is something people like Bill Cosby have been talking about for quite some time, and it is something that CLEARLY affects intelligence and scores. Yet people would rather rank all of Africa as ‘one country,’ even when Africans in the US outperform African Americans, Whites and American-Asians (as opposed to immigrant Asians from Asia and India, who the Africans tie with).
If only I could repeat some of the things those African friends of mine used to say, but I’d probably get banned …
Needless to say, they would (as I do) find this article rather humorous. Quite so indeed.
Conclusion: Lack of intelligence is largely self-imposed through nurture/culture. This goes back to what Bill Cosby has been saying, and what i rather crudely alluded to in my Library vs Basketball analogy. Again, look at the people studying in the lib and the people throwing hoops on the court. Then check their SAT scores. And as for 'Africans' ....go to your local university and check what most of the Africans are doing (if they are not studying they are working and saving).
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