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Georgia water shortage
Foxnews.com ^ | 10/17/07 | Associated Press

Posted on 10/18/2007 3:55:58 AM PDT by msrngtp2002

Georgia Officials Threaten to Sue Corp of Engineers Over Draining Reservoirs

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atlanta; georgia; water; waterwars
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To: randita

Must be the way God wants it...


51 posted on 10/18/2007 6:26:23 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: from occupied ga

Talk about ignorant and obnoxious statements...


52 posted on 10/18/2007 6:28:10 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Brilliant

Get rid of the liberals! Ship them all to Berkeley.


53 posted on 10/18/2007 6:28:28 AM PDT by Tatze (I'm in a state of taglinelessness!)
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To: doodad

“How about remove their control of said facilty? “

That would be a great exercise of State’s rights. I’d love to see State SWAT Teams storm the control facilities and set up a perimeter.


54 posted on 10/18/2007 6:29:18 AM PDT by Rb ver. 2.0 (The WOT will end when pork products are weaponized)
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To: bobjam
Georgia doesn’t deserve the blame for the current crisis. The Corps dumped an extra 22 billion gallons by “accident” in 2006. If they had compensated for it by reducing the releases to amounts more appropriate to a drought situation, we would have another 3 or 4 months of supply by now. Instead they are protecting the mussels.
55 posted on 10/18/2007 6:31:45 AM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: Brilliant

Send the yankees home!


56 posted on 10/18/2007 6:32:00 AM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: Rb ver. 2.0

Maybe the Gov. could contract with Blackwater USA to secure the dam... ;-)


57 posted on 10/18/2007 6:34:53 AM PDT by Liberty Ship ("Lord, make me fast and accurate.")
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To: from occupied ga
You might discover in a court of law, the only water you “own” is in your body.

Water unlike gasoline, is a necessity for life. Some folks are out there just getting by and do not consider themselves poor. As a society and community we have an ethical and spiritual obligation to defend and protect those who are less fortunate.

On the other hand, our fair city has many fortunate homeowners who have “won life’s lottery HA!) and they have automatic sprinklers that pee this precious resource daily on their fescue. My neighbor gayly auto-sprinkles his pine straw as well as the street. Triple the price and he would never know it. This is his third house and we never see him. CUT OFF HIS WATER!

That will give people a taste of what is coming to our fair city of ATLANTA; RATIONING.

The Atlanta City Council needs to get somebody at Water Works to turn it off for ONE HOUR NOW. Let everybody, rich & poor appreciate where we are going.

If we triple the cost of water now, it will not impact anybody until DECEMBER and by then, we will stink from no showers. You will be remote officing from Chattanooga and I will camp at my better neighbors house for his well water.

The CITY of Atlanta needs to take some amphetamines and go to work.

58 posted on 10/18/2007 6:40:48 AM PDT by Broker (Mabuhay!)
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To: Air Force Brat
About half of all water used (71 billion gallons out of 140 billion gallons per day) is used for irrigation

Correct, stop watering lawns and wetlands, problem solved.

59 posted on 10/18/2007 6:44:44 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: from occupied ga
So your unsupported opinion has now been raised to the level of truth.

There you go trying to make it about me again. Do some research into the history of the area and get back to me.

I do find it interesting that you try to make it about the citizens who live there rather than the officials who caused the problem, not to mention that the COE is releasing water from the dam at foru times the rate it's flowing in. This is the fault of the citizens? Not likely.

Yes, it is the fault of the citizens, or rather their apathy. The citizens of the region agreed to the current deal with the Corps of Engineers BEFORE Lake Lanier was built. Get it? If you don't understand this you need to do some research. The citizens allowed the gubmint officials, both appointed and elected, to let this water issue rise to crisis levels.

What utter horse manure. By your own admission the fix is in in most of these things. A citizen getting "vocally involved" is just wasting their time unless they're pushing the preferred socialist agenda, and then they serve the role of "useful idiot"

Where did I admit that? How do you know you'd be wasting your time? How many county commission meetings have you attended? Tell the truth, now, how many? I attend almost every county commission meeting in my hometown now just to keep an eye on them. It's only a couple of hours out of my month. Do you not do the same?

No I didn't elect them. I guess you're not able to do the math, but I'll say it again 99.9% of government bureaucrats are NOT elected.

And who appoints them?

Atlanta government is voted in on a racial basis. The sole function of the Atlanta government is to dispers taxpayer loot to blacks and other friends of the black democrat crooks who run the city, so tell me how Anyone living the the suburbs can affect that. (Yeah, get "vocally involved" - my ass)

I am acutely aware of the corruption in the Atlanta city government, as well as MARTA, the Atlanta Regional Planning Commission, the Gwinnett County Commission and others. I ran several businesses in Atlanta and my family ran an auto parts business with the main store on North Avenue in Atlanta. This family business began in 1949 and was sold in 1993. So yeah, I am very familiar with the situation in Atlanta. Obviously more familiar than you are.

Solution: cut the runoff downstream to that which would be coming in after. Don't use the reservoir to keep an artificially high flow rate.

The reservoirs are being used for exactly what they were intended to be used for when they were built, that being electricity generation and flood control. Lake Lanier was never, ever intended to be the main source of water for Atlanta and the surrounding 'burbs. Did you ever stop to think that there are other municipalities that also use the Chattahoochee for drinking water? Are you more important than they are? If you restrict downstream flow, what are the folks in Columbus and Lagrange going to do for drinking water? What about the oyster beds in Apalachicola? Drinking water was a secondary use for Lake Lanier, as was recreation. Read the original agreement with the Corps of Engineers and educate yourself. You are woefully uninformed.

60 posted on 10/18/2007 6:45:44 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Thinking of voting Democrat? Wake up and smell the Socialism!)
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To: Brilliant

Let the water supply run out, and it will.


61 posted on 10/18/2007 6:47:50 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: Lazamataz
Give us yer f&*$in' water or we'll kill yer a&&.

Tennessee will see your nukes and raise you 250,000 pissed off rednecks with shotguns, four wheel drives and plenty of water......

62 posted on 10/18/2007 6:50:47 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Thinking of voting Democrat? Wake up and smell the Socialism!)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace

The guys running the dam SHOULD have simply looked at the lake, which was OBVIOUSLY _WAY_ below where it should have been. Instead, they were slavishly obedient to a broken depth gauge, which told them to let _lots_ of water out.

Once the busted gauge was fixed, they SHOULD have slowed the release at least a bit until the lake was re-filled.

(FYI: I live a mile from the lake.)


63 posted on 10/18/2007 6:52:11 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: doodad

Report them! Water restrictions are moving to a zero-tolerance policy (water lawn, water supply gets shut off).


64 posted on 10/18/2007 6:54:25 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: doodad

There’s a simple middle ground. Water just enough to keep plants alive...they don’t need to look lush and green. Grass goes dormant but will green back up. Trees will tell you when they NEED water and at that point give them a good deep watering. Not this three times a week stuff.


65 posted on 10/18/2007 6:56:18 AM PDT by RockinRight (The Council on Illuminated Foreign Masons told me to watch you from my black helicopter.)
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To: doodad

My brother lives in the area and says, “Now is the time to take some heavy equipment into the lakes and actually make them deeper. Lanier is always dirty because it is so shallow.” So, why not make them deeper when they are bone dry?


66 posted on 10/18/2007 6:58:11 AM PDT by q_an_a
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To: Liberty Ship
They are saying we have 80 days of drinking water left. ... One of the big reasons we are being bled dry is to protect some endangered mussels

Well, in about 90 days the Endangered Species Act won't apply to the situation, will it?
/sarc

67 posted on 10/18/2007 7:01:44 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: 1Old Pro

Well, while lawns are part of the problem, the real issue is large scale commercial agricultural irrigation. That’s where the real large water uses are.

And I don’t know of too many places where wetlands are being irrigated outside of where they’re used to naturally treat wastewater discharges.


68 posted on 10/18/2007 7:08:48 AM PDT by Air Force Brat
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To: Broker
If we triple the cost of water now, it will not impact anybody until DECEMBER and by then, we will stink from no showers. You will be remote officing from Chattanooga and I will camp at my better neighbors house for his well water.

The Atlanta situation is starting to remind me of the premise for the musical "Urinetown", where water is so scarce, everyone has to pay to go to the toilet and, if you can't afford it -- well, you're done away with.

69 posted on 10/18/2007 7:11:52 AM PDT by randita
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To: Babsig

Being in GA, let me say: keep it, then.

You have your “homegrown” water supply. We certainly appreciate the overrun, but if you need all you have and it’s yours then keep it; if we don’t have what we need, that’s our problem.

The problem with having the governors seize the water supplies via the National Guard is that the National Guard is really part of the Army, which also owns the Corp. of Engineers which (legally and/or practically) owns the water supplies (lakes, dams). Tellling the Army to go seize something from itself won’t help.


70 posted on 10/18/2007 7:14:13 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: q_an_a
Lanier is always dirty because it is so shallow

Lanier is always dirty because of all the traffic on the lake. I remember back in the 70's when you could see the bottom of the lake in 20' of water in the summertime. We used to dive for golf balls off shore from the Lake Lanier Islands golf course. You could easily see golf balls from 20-25' away. Not so anymore.....

71 posted on 10/18/2007 7:19:42 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Thinking of voting Democrat? Wake up and smell the Socialism!)
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To: Babsig; fix
Ah. Now I see the issue more clearly. Initially I was thinking Hartwell was entirely in SC, in which case do as you like. Thing is...it's not, and that's where things could get...interesting.


View Larger Map

Ya see, half the lake is in GA. Half the dam is in GA. And ALL of the water control is in GA. Any suggestions before GA opens the spigot?

72 posted on 10/18/2007 7:24:35 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: sam_paine

I agree about motivations but surely you’re not suggesting we don’t do our part.

BTW, just heard on the radio, Douglas County is turning off the water of anyone they catch violating the outdoor ban. $1,000 restoration fee. Pretty compelling!!


73 posted on 10/18/2007 7:37:54 AM PDT by rightthinkingwoman
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To: doodad

“How his hands were tied and they could not legally do anything etc.”

This is the standard Corp answer, their Nuremburg defense while they bribe more congress creeps with make work projects in their district. I say do away with the fake engineers.


74 posted on 10/18/2007 7:38:51 AM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (We have become an oligarchy not a Republic.)
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To: buck61

Walla Walla Sweets are the best.


75 posted on 10/18/2007 7:47:12 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: msrngtp2002

Water in Atlanta is already expensive due to an issue with sewage treatment plants. (long story demonstrating decades of ignorance) Our normal water bill runs around $120/month. That is for a family of 7, without much yard watering.


76 posted on 10/18/2007 7:49:57 AM PDT by ga medic
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To: rightthinkingwoman; msrngtp2002
I agree about motivations but surely you’re not suggesting we don’t do our part.

I'm suggesting that "doing our part" is a poor motivator for human behavior compared to "owning our part."

And I'm just parroting older and smarter people than myself, like maybe Aristotle!

For example, indexing the monthly pricing for water to the level of the resevoir would get you a much better feedback/control system than arbitrary nanny-state police punishment of $1000 fines.

What msrngtp said is closer to this solution than fines and feel-goodery.

77 posted on 10/18/2007 7:58:14 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: arbooz

I saw a story on one of the public water leaks. The water was just flowing out from beneath the street curbing, and people living nearby showed up with buckets to catch the water and take it back home to water plants. They reported the leak to the city, and were told that it would be added to the long list of public water leaks to be fixed.


78 posted on 10/18/2007 8:02:46 AM PDT by Cecily
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To: Thermalseeker

I stand corrected


79 posted on 10/18/2007 12:29:18 PM PDT by q_an_a
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To: buck61

Try the Texas 1015 onion.


80 posted on 10/19/2007 2:18:31 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ragnar54

Only three or four more months of water?

Why is Atlanta in this situation in the first place? Does the region’s water plan for the future consist soley of telling the Corps when to release what from Lake Lanier?

If it weren’t for Congress and the Corps, there wouldn’t be a Lake Lanier in the first place.


81 posted on 10/19/2007 5:11:06 AM PDT by bobjam
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To: bobjam
So, are you saying we should knock down every dam operated by the Corps so as to be independent of them? Or are you claiming that every other region in the country has an emergency backup water supply for those occasions when the Corps decides to drain the main reservoir?

The reason we are in this situation is that the watermelons (red on the inside..) have forced the Corps (through the endangered species act) to release excess water for the sake of some mussels that no one cares about. The Corps has made no attempt to regulate flow based on drought conditions (or their "accidental" spill of 22 billion gallons). The Governor has been fighting since at least early 2006 to have the Corps use a more rational water release plan (one that places priority on people, not mussels).

Lanier has been in place for 59 years:

"Congress authorized Buford Dam for construction in 1946 as part of the overall development of the nation’s waterways after the Second World War. The river and harbor legislation that came out of Congress during this time period was targeted at developing the nation’s rivers systems for national defense, flood control, power production, navigation and water supplies. " (from the Corps website).

The development around the Atlanta area since the '50s has been based on the assumption of an adequate water supply. This was a reasonable assumption until the watermelons got into the act. The real goal of the watermelons is to put an end to development and install leftist politicians; most of them don't really care about the "endangered" species. Since most "endangered" species have been trying to go extinct for eons, we should have a new national policy of helping them out by pushing them over the edge.
82 posted on 10/19/2007 7:46:26 AM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: Ragnar54

I like the watermelon term- environmentalists who are “green” on the outside but commie red on the inside.

The overarching problem seems to be that the Atlanta area is growing beyond what can be sustained by a water supply installed over 50 years ago. This is much the same problem that California has with its electric grid. Even if the Corps had not “accidentally” dumped 22 billion gallons, there would only be three or four months supply left in the resevoir.

What is Greater Atlanta doing to find new sources of potable water? Is there a push to irrigate with reclaimed water (becoming increasingly common in Florida)?


83 posted on 10/19/2007 8:36:27 AM PDT by bobjam
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To: bobjam
My keyboard made an error on the last post :). This is the 50th anniversary of the opening of Lake Lanier.

I don't think that there are many farmers using Lanier water. Farming is mostly in the southern part of the state, using other water sources (e.g., the Flint and Suwannee rivers). Since the entire state is suffering from a drought, farmers have been hurt (there is much dependence on rainwater).

The 22 billion gallons was estimated to be about 118 days (about 4 months) at the time. We currently have about 3 months left. So, without the spill, we would have 6 months left.

Aside from the endangered mussels and oopsies by the Corps, the major consumers of water from Lanier are those pesky neighboring states and Georgia Power. A nuclear power plant would reduce the need to release water from the lake during the AC season.

In 2004, Governor Perdue signed legislation ordering the EPD to develop the first statewide water management plan. The first draft was released for comments in June of this year:

The Water Council

This is not something that most of us have been aware of. The current crisis has no doubt raised the awareness of many Georgians. The entire Georgia congressional delegation has just introduced legislation to suspend the Endangered Species act during times of drought.

Lawmakers propose lifting species protections in drought

So maybe the entire nation will ultimately benefit from this.
84 posted on 10/19/2007 1:25:54 PM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: msrngtp2002
disagree on how to manage the region's limited water supply.

raise prices of water

85 posted on 10/26/2007 3:17:50 PM PDT by mjp (Live & let live. I don't want to live in Mexico, Marxico, or Muslimico. Statism & high taxes suck)
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