The 'cold civil war' in the U.S.: The common space required for civil debate...(MARK STEYN)

MacLean's, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ^ | 22 October 2007 | Mark Steyn

[JillValentine]

America, 2007 is frighteningly similar to Spain, 1936.

The Soviet-sponsored May Day celebrations drove a lot of conservatives over the edge.

[JillValentine]

That’s exactly what happened in Chile in 1970. Allende was elected with about 35% of the vote, with the other 65% split between centrist and rightist candidates. And Allende, of course, failed to take a hint and governed as if he’d won in a landslide, ramming radical Marxist policies into government.

[LibLieSlayer]

I agree.

LLS

[LibLieSlayer]

I think we will have a battle at the Convention if that is so... it has been decades... but it could be the safety valve that saves us... if needed.

LLS

[Jim Noble]

I think we will have a battle at the Convention if that is so... it has been decades... but it could be the safety valve that saves us... if needed.

I don't think there is any current candidate who is acceptable to both factions of the party.

[bvw]

A fraudulently elected legislature in 1855 by ballot injections by slavers in raids from the slave states, eventually remedied, barely, in Wynadotte 1859 after many tribulations -- the Free Staters won, the South withdrew from the Federal Union, Kansas then went from Territory to a State in the Union.

We can count on fraud in many states this coming election. Can we hold it down? Or will it be done as boldly in daylight as in Kansas in those days, or as boldly as Hillary now stands dancing in the rain of Chinese money, with none demanding she be fined and the money claimed as proceeds of criminal and even seditious conspiracy and bribes?

Are we free enough to withstand the Chinese slavers?

[stephenjohnbanker]

BUMP

[exit82]

Thanks for taking the time to educate me on 1855 Kansas.
There was a lot of violence in Kansas as well, if I recall my history.

I agree with you about the fraud issue. It was an issue in 2000, but the GOP was too “gentlemenly” to confront it.

They also failed to do in 2004.

Hillary’s support bases are all in the major cities, whixh are Democratically controlled.

I lived in NJ for many years—election fraud in the inner cities was raised to an art form there.

Then after all of our hard work to overcome the Dems and voter fraud to lect a Republican governor, Christie Todd Whitman, she turned out to be a worthless RINO.

The comment about the “Chinese slavers” and their influence in 2008 is very prescient.

And why not—it worked for them with the last Clinton Presidential candidate.

[khnyny]

Allende = Clinton?

IMHO, it would be a mistake to have a third party candidate. That’s how Bubba won the first time around.

[Sherman Logan]

systematic disarmament of the enemies of the Left.

I'm sure there are plans to accomplish this, but public opinion and actual policies in recent decades have mostly moved in the other direction.

Concealed carry "shall issue" is now legal in the vast majority of states. 20 years ago Florida was the first state to adopt this policy.

Public support for gun control has dropped a great deal in the same period.

[Publius]

Two years ago I wrote The Splintering of the Democratic Party, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Albert Gore take a shot at the Green Party nomination. That's more likely than a Nader-Paul alliance.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both parties splinter and the election decided in the House.

[FreedomPoster]

Big CWII ping.

This article lays it out better than most.

dufekin’s post 6 is a nice succinct summary, as well.

[Carbonado]

“The separation between the conservative red states and the liberal blue cities is a profound chasm; the two sides increasingly operate off different perceptions of reality and different reasoning processes”

I believe that this is absolutely true, but I also believe that the divide, while it is real, isn’t anywhere near 50-50 as I think many would assume.

I believe that about 35% of the population is of the “red state of mind” and will express themselves as such publicly and vote accordingly.

There is another 35 or so percent that is of that red state of mind but chooses to remain silent because of the Liberal hegemony in the MSM, which frames the public debate on most issues in such a way that to oppose the Lib positions is presented as an affront to decency and fairness. They don’t want others to say bad things about them, so they go along. They can easily be persuaded by a coherent conservative argument if someone will make it.

Then there are the True Blue Libs of the NYT and WAPO variety (almost all in large urban areas) that make up less than 30% of the population or less.

It is the power of the Liberal controlled media from Hollywood to music to “journalists” that have power way beyond their numbers due to their control of the public debate.

And that is the real war.

[Doomonyou]

Besides, I've done a bit of wordsmithing myself.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...So when is the next one gonna be done? ;)

[FFranco]

In the Spanish Civil War, nearly all the army went with the Nationalists, while most of the navy remained loyal to the republic. That probably made a big difference in the end result, though help from Hitler and Mussolini didn’t hurt the Nationalist cause.

During the US Civil War, the army split according to state loyalty. Most of the navy stayed with the North. Probably because most of the navy’s officer corps and seamen came from northern states where there was more of a seagoing tradition. As I recall, at the beginning people were generally allowed to leave their units and move to the opposite side withouth interference.

My impression of the US military today is that nearly all the officers are conservatives. There might be more liberals among the enlisted personnel. It would probably be hard to guarantee the military’s adherence to either side.

[Fishrrman]

“That’s exactly what happened in Chile in 1970. Allende was elected with about 35% of the vote, with the other 65% split between centrist and rightist candidates. And Allende, of course, failed to take a hint and governed as if he’d won in a landslide, ramming radical Marxist policies into government.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1751504/posts?page=34#34

- John

[FreedomPoster]

OK, I wasn’t paying attention, and thought I was getting the original ping from my normal Mark Steyn ping list. Sorry for the double ping, CWII folks.

[FreedomPoster]

Don’t miss post 11. Gibson is behind the curve.

[Screaming_Gerbil]

Civil War II Bump

[Fishrrman]

There is another 35 or so percent that is of that red state of mind but chooses to remain silent because of the Liberal hegemony in the MSM, which frames the public debate on most issues in such a way that to oppose the Lib positions is presented as an affront to decency and fairness. They don’t want others to say bad things about them, so they go along. They can easily be persuaded by a coherent conservative argument if someone will make it

I've coined a term for these voters:
The "waving wheat". (A FR/Fishrrman original)

They are the wishy-washy independents and undecideds, unable to make up their own minds, who bend and wave en masse in the direction of the prevailing political winds.

Which direction they lean towards depends on who's making the most "political wind". Obviously the mainstream media has long been the "windmaker", but the internet may be changing that.

I sense that currently, those political winds seem to be blowing in the democrats' direction, but I hope I'm proven wrong or that they shift a little back towards our side. We shall see.

- John