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Pope Tells Pharmacists Not to Dispense Drugs With 'Immoral Purposes'
Associated Press via Fox News.com ^ | 10/29/07 | Associated Press

Posted on 10/29/2007 1:23:27 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI urged Catholic pharmacists on Monday to use conscientious objection to avoid dispensing drugs with "immoral purposes such as, for example, abortion or euthanasia."

In a speech to participants at the 25th International Congress of Catholic Pharmacists, Benedict said that conscientious objection was a right that must be recognized by the pharmaceutical profession.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; conscienceclause; contraception; euthanasia; pharmacy
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1 posted on 10/29/2007 1:23:46 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa
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To: NYer; Salvation; Coleus; Mr. Silverback

Ping


2 posted on 10/29/2007 1:26:43 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3rd Bn. 5th Marines, RVN 1969. St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: ConorMacNessa

Excellent! And I would like to see the Pope censure nominal Catholics such as Washington State Governor Gregoire who have made dispensing objections unlawful.


3 posted on 10/29/2007 1:27:50 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture ™)
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To: ConorMacNessa
A great many FReepers want to force pharmacists and doctors to either violate their consciences or quit their jobs.

"Catholics Need Not Apply" for health care jobs, is their position.

It's a very, very sad commentary on today's society.

4 posted on 10/29/2007 1:29:23 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (Romney : "not really trying to define what is technically amnesty. I'll let the lawyers decide.")
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To: JohnnyZ

If you want to work at a job that involves certain tasks, you should either perform those tasks, or find another job. I think most people here would consider that a conservative approach. So, if you own a pharmacy, do what you want, otherwise do what you’re told. Or perhaps you think it’s reasonable for Muslim taxi drivers to refuse to carry alcohol (or dogs), or for Muslims working in a grocery store check-out to refuse to handle port (or alcohol)?


5 posted on 10/29/2007 1:33:27 PM PDT by -YYZ- (Strong like bull, smart like ox.)
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To: ConorMacNessa

RKV tells Pope not to dispense priests with immoral purposes. Given that the Archdiocese of Los Angeles has paid millions to US citizens who were sexually abused by Catholic priests I figured that was in order. These priests were hidden by the diocese, and moved from church to church in order to keep them away from secular authorities.


6 posted on 10/29/2007 1:36:54 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: ConorMacNessa

Is the Pope going to provide a comprehensive list? There are many medications I COULD kill myself with.


7 posted on 10/29/2007 1:36:54 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: gracesdad
There are many medications I COULD kill myself with.

Please provide a list of other medications (except in Oregon) that will kill when used as directed.

8 posted on 10/29/2007 1:39:53 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture ™)
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To: JohnnyZ

“”Catholics Need Not Apply” for health care jobs, is their position.”

Oh, please.

There are TONS of health care jobs that don’t require handing out birth control or the morning after pill. In fact, there are many more that don’t require it.

But if I own a pharmacy and you don’t want to dispense certain types of drugs, please don’t apply for a job. If you do and you refuse to follow my orders, you’re fired. That’s the way “jobs” work.


9 posted on 10/29/2007 1:43:57 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: steve86

I didn’t say anything about using them as directed. But there are plenty of medications I can overdose with, and in fact people do this regularly.


10 posted on 10/29/2007 1:45:45 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: JohnnyZ
A great many FReepers want to force pharmacists and doctors to either violate their consciences or quit their jobs.

In general, I want people who willingly take jobs to either do their jobs or quit their jobs. Is this unreasonable?
11 posted on 10/29/2007 1:46:54 PM PDT by aNYCguy
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To: -YYZ-
If you want to work at a job that involves certain tasks, you should either perform those tasks, or find another job. I think most people here would consider that a conservative approach.

First off, this was never part of the job until very recently. Secondly, coercing people to take part in infanticide is not conservative in any way shape or form.

So, if you own a pharmacy, do what you want, otherwise do what you’re told.

In many cases this is no longer a company decision, but one being hoisted upon them by the government.

Or perhaps you think it’s reasonable for Muslim taxi drivers to refuse to carry alcohol (or dogs), or for Muslims working in a grocery store check-out to refuse to handle port (or alcohol)?

Assisting in what many consider murder does not compare to some silly rule Muslims may or may not have.

12 posted on 10/29/2007 1:47:31 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: gracesdad
If you do and you refuse to follow my orders, you’re fired. That’s the way “jobs” work.

And not so long ago employers like you were able to fire employees for being of dark complexion or a woman.

13 posted on 10/29/2007 1:47:40 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture ™)
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To: RKV

What brilliant logic! Because the Archdiocese of L.A. has/had some bad priests, the Pope should refrain from giving advice to pharmacists about the immorality of death-inducing drugs? Is that what you’re saying? Seriously, some of you anti-Catholic bigots won’t be happy until the Church simply shuts downs.


14 posted on 10/29/2007 1:48:00 PM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: gracesdad

Pharmacist. Hear that? Pharmacist. They dispense medicines.

Free market over conscience, right? That’s the new sacrosanct hierarcy...


15 posted on 10/29/2007 1:49:17 PM PDT by Norman Bates
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To: aNYCguy
In general, I want people who willingly take jobs to either do their jobs or quit their jobs. Is this unreasonable

The majority of pharmacists employed now chose their careers long before the drug in question was available.

16 posted on 10/29/2007 1:49:52 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture ™)
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To: gracesdad
But if I own a pharmacy and you don’t want to dispense certain types of drugs, please don’t apply for a job. If you do and you refuse to follow my orders, you’re fired. That’s the way “jobs” work.

Are you OK with the government telling you that you must dispense abortion pills, which is the trend now.

17 posted on 10/29/2007 1:50:05 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: gracesdad

The Pope is not referring to people overdosing on drugs and the issue is utterly irrelevant and a red herring.


18 posted on 10/29/2007 1:50:57 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture ™)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: JohnnyZ
A great many FReepers want to force pharmacists and doctors to either violate their consciences or quit their jobs.

Yep, and they are showing up on this thread. Not only is abortion a right, but if you work in health care you must participate in it. That is where they are taking us. In their mind if you are pro-life, you should just erase health care as a potential profession.

20 posted on 10/29/2007 1:54:24 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: steve86
"The majority of pharmacists employed now chose their careers long before the drug in question was available."

True, but now they are employed by companies that make money off of and pay their salaries with the profits earned from the sale of medicine they object to. That's like being a security guard at an abortion clinic. They may not perform the abortions but they are profiting from it. Wouldn't it make more sense to quit rather than accept a salary from a company who practices what you condemn?

21 posted on 10/29/2007 2:00:00 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: gracesdad
But if I own a pharmacy and you don’t want to dispense certain types of drugs, please don’t apply for a job. If you do and you refuse to follow my orders, you’re fired.

And the great thing about freedom and capitalism is that I, as a customer, am then free to boycott your pharmacy and encourage my co-religionists to do the same. And if you don't like the hit to your bottom line, you can change your policies. Or not.

However, what's happening in more than one locale is the government is stepping in and making what should be a set of private economic decisions between the pharmacy owner, the pharmacist, and the customer into a point of public policy. If all pharmacists are required to dispense, e.g., Plan B, then I no longer have the freedom to patronize one who does not, to say nothing of no longer having the freedom to be one who does not.

22 posted on 10/29/2007 2:00:03 PM PDT by Campion
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To: blaquebyrd
Wouldn't it make more sense to quit rather than accept a salary from a company who practices what you condemn?

If we had a free market and business owners had the choice so a health care employee had a choice, it would make sense. But when governments force this choice on all businesses, it gets to the point where pro-lifers can't work in the profession. Is that what you want?

23 posted on 10/29/2007 2:05:13 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: -YYZ-
If you want to work at a job that involves certain tasks, you should either perform those tasks, or find another job. I think most people here would consider that a conservative approach. So, if you own a pharmacy, do what you want, otherwise do what you’re told. Or perhaps you think it’s reasonable for Muslim taxi drivers to refuse to carry alcohol (or dogs), or for Muslims working in a grocery store check-out to refuse to handle port (or alcohol)?

An excellent example.

Do the entire job, or don't take the job.

24 posted on 10/29/2007 2:06:04 PM PDT by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
Do the entire job, or don't take the job.

Yep, if you don't want to kill babies, stay out of health care!!!! Great example.

25 posted on 10/29/2007 2:08:11 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right
"In many cases this is no longer a company decision, but one being hoisted upon them by the government."

You're mixing apples and oranges here. I think most Freepers disagree with a law that requires every phamacist to dispense drugs in violation of deeply held religious belief. It's another thing entirely to say a private pharmacy owner can't hire only those people who will dispense any lawful RX so as to maximize his income. Just as the same pharmacy owner should be able to instruct all his phamacists not to dispense the drug if it violates his conscience. That's the whole concept of private property.

26 posted on 10/29/2007 2:09:07 PM PDT by joebuck
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To: joebuck
You're mixing apples and oranges here. I think most Freepers disagree with a law that requires every phamacist to dispense drugs in violation of deeply held religious belief.

I am not mixing anything, that is what is happening. And when the Democrats get in charge and start playing with health care, it will happen nationally.

27 posted on 10/29/2007 2:16:49 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: irishjuggler

When the hypocrites in the church take the log out of their eye, then I’ll get the splinter out of mine. Facts aren’t bigoted, by the way. And the fact was the high officials in the Catholic Church knew about the problem and did nothing for years.


28 posted on 10/29/2007 2:18:47 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: Always Right
Yep, if you don't want to kill babies, stay out of health care!!!! Great example.

Plenty of ways to be in health care and not contribute to something you find distasteful or offensive. Having to dispense medicine that some faiths oppose is nothing new to the profession.

This is like somebody enlisting in the Marines and then deciding that he's a pacifist and doesn't want to kill anybody after all.

29 posted on 10/29/2007 2:20:27 PM PDT by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: Always Right
"But when governments force this choice on all businesses, it gets to the point where pro-lifers can't work in the profession. Is that what you want?"

Not all I was just questioning the seriousness of one's conviction when it comes to supporting their religious beliefs. It strikes me as odd that a pharmacist would refuse to dispense a drug while accepting a salary that includes profits from its sale. There is also a slippery slope argument to be made. Some religions forbid any type of birth control, even over the counter devices. What's an employer supposed to do? Hire employees based on which products each particular religion allows them to sell?

30 posted on 10/29/2007 2:21:23 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: RKV

We don’t deny your fact. We object to your use of it.


31 posted on 10/29/2007 2:26:13 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: highball
Plenty of ways to be in health care and not contribute to something you find distasteful or offensive.

For now.

32 posted on 10/29/2007 2:29:28 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Campion

So I take it you don’t shop at Walgreen’s or CVS.


33 posted on 10/29/2007 2:35:10 PM PDT by GunRunner (Thompson 2008 - Security, Unity, Prosperity)
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To: RKV
Facts aren't bigoted,

But you are. Only a bigot would assert that the Pope shouldn't warn against dispensing death-inducing drugs because Los Angeles had some bad priests. It's like saying that President Bush should shut up about the danger of Islamic terrorism because the CIA has had some turncoat agents (e.g., Aldrich Ames). One thing doesn't logically follow from the other. If you can't see the bigotry in your position, you are truly blind.
34 posted on 10/29/2007 2:41:44 PM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: highball
This is like somebody enlisting in the Marines and then deciding that he's a pacifist and doesn't want to kill anybody after all.

It's more like enlisting in the military and being ordered to bayonet tied up civilians, as an exercise to desensitize you to slaughter. Like the Japanese military did in WWII.

Or it's like a doctor who chose the profession to heal the sick and being forced to kill children or lose his medical license.

You people disgust me.

35 posted on 10/29/2007 2:45:24 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (Romney : "not really trying to define what is technically amnesty. I'll let the lawyers decide.")
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To: JohnnyZ
Or it's like a doctor who chose the profession to heal the sick and being forced to kill children or lose his medical license.

If you don't want to distribute birth control pills, don't be a pharmacist.

36 posted on 10/29/2007 2:51:47 PM PDT by GunRunner (Thompson 2008 - Security, Unity, Prosperity)
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To: RKV
And the fact was the high officials in the Catholic Church knew about the problem and did nothing for years.

Some high officials knew about it and did nothing. You are indicting the entire Church for the actions of a few irresponsible bishops. Are you, like other Catholic-haters, going to now indict all priests as being pedophiles?

37 posted on 10/29/2007 3:01:40 PM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: highball; -YYZ-
An excellent example.

Do the entire job, or don't take the job.

No, it is a poor example and incorrect. Physicians and nurses have always had the ability to decline to administer care in certain situations. This is not a new debate. The individual is allowed, actually responsible, to refuse assignments which fall outside a person's area of expertise or conscience. Once the healthcare professional agrees to provide care, whether for a short period of time or extended as in private practice, he or she is ethically obligated to provide care or refer to another provider who can.

If I was a hospital nurse asked to assist with an abortion I could lawfully refuse and another nurse could be asked to assist. However if I applied to a Planned Parenthood to assist in abortions then refused, they could lawfully fire me as the terms of the employment were agreed upon at the outset.

There has never been an accepted policy of coercing healthcare workers to perform tasks outside their expertise or conscience. This includes pharmacists.

38 posted on 10/29/2007 3:02:14 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (Romney Republican)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Canticle_of_Deborah
There has never been an accepted policy of coercing healthcare workers to perform tasks outside their expertise or conscience. This includes pharmacists.

Except those pharmacists who work in California, Illinois, or Washington.

40 posted on 10/29/2007 3:10:05 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: ConorMacNessa
Pope Benedict XVI urged Catholic pharmacists on Monday to use conscientious objection to avoid dispensing drugs with "immoral purposes such as, for example, abortion or euthanasia."

Fine, if you pay their salaries you can tell them what to do.

41 posted on 10/29/2007 3:31:21 PM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: ConorMacNessa
Pope Benedict XVI urged Catholic pharmacists on Monday to use conscientious objection to avoid dispensing drugs with "immoral purposes such as, for example, abortion or euthanasia."

Fine, if you pay their salaries you can tell them what to do.

42 posted on 10/29/2007 3:31:34 PM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: -YYZ-
I spent a couple of days in a hospital due to Diabetic complications (Type 1, BTW). I know what a lethal dose of insulin would be for me. How I manage this treatment is an issue between my physician, dietician, and the rest of the management team. Since when does a drugstore or a pharmacist have a “right” to intervene in a process in which he or she has not been involved? I have encountered individuals in health care who believe insulin is “bad” for you and should not be taken under any circumstances.
43 posted on 10/29/2007 3:43:50 PM PDT by airforceF4
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To: -YYZ-
I spent a couple of days in a hospital due to Diabetic complications (Type 1, BTW). I know what a lethal dose of insulin would be for me. How I manage this treatment is an issue between my physician, dietician, and the rest of the management team. Since when does a drugstore or a pharmacist have a “right” to intervene in a process in which he or she has not been involved? I have encountered individuals in health care who believe insulin is “bad” for you and should not be taken under any circumstances.
44 posted on 10/29/2007 3:44:02 PM PDT by airforceF4
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To: airforceF4

I hate to break it to you but the pharmacist dispensing your insulin is quite involved in your treatment. He is one of the lines of defense should your physician order an incorrect dosage. He is also a resource for adverse effects, drug interactions and antidotes. He is a behind the scenes VIP in your care.

If a pharmacist was ethically opposed to insulin he would not be employed in an institution which required it or another pharmacist without objections would be available to dispense.

I’m surprised at the number of people championing their own rights who are more than willing to violate the rights of others.


45 posted on 10/29/2007 3:55:29 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (Romney Republican)
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To: ConorMacNessa
Pray for an end to abortion and the conversion of America to a mindset of life!

46 posted on 10/29/2007 5:42:44 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: steve86

“And not so long ago employers like you were able to fire employees for being of dark complexion or a woman.”

Wrong again. There’s a big difference between having a dark complexion and refusing to do your job.

Try another strawman.


47 posted on 10/30/2007 4:22:52 AM PDT by gracesdad
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To: steve86

So now tell me again. I hire you to do a specific job and you know what that job is coming in and you think it’s OK to refuse to do part of it?

Glad you don’t work for me.


48 posted on 10/30/2007 4:26:19 AM PDT by gracesdad
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To: gracesdad; steve86

It’ll be much more subtle. They simply won’t hire Catholics in order to not risk a conflict


49 posted on 10/30/2007 4:26:24 AM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: durasell

“It’ll be much more subtle. They simply won’t hire Catholics in order to not risk a conflict.”

As long as you don’t volunteer the information or wear a sign saying “I’m Catholic,” the employer won’t know. It’s long been illegal to ask about religion in job interviews.


50 posted on 10/30/2007 4:54:50 AM PDT by gracesdad
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