I don't see myself as obsessing about Giuliani. I see myself as obsessing about those who would actually vote for him if he were the republican nominee. 
Posted on 10/31/2007 1:23:31 PM PDT by neverdem
The persistent American fascination with third parties and fringe candidates defies every lesson of history, logic, human nature and common sense. No minor party candidate has ever won the presidency or, for that matter, even come close. For the most part, these ego-driven “independent” adventures in electoral narcissism push the political process further away from their professed goals, rather than advancing their agendas or ideas.
Nevertheless, a clear majority of Americans (58%) in September, 2007, told the Gallup Poll that the two major parties “do such a poor job that a third major party is needed”, while only 39% agree with a statement that the established parties “do an adequate job of representing the American people.” A Rasmussen Survey (May, 2007) produced similar results, with 58% agreeing with the statement that “it would be good for the United States if there were a truly competitive third party,” and only 23% disagreeing. Among religious conservatives, prominent leaders talk openly of backing a kamikaze candidate if Rudy Giuliani becomes the GOP nominee, and a Rasmussen telephone survey shows a striking 27% of Republicans willing to back a “Pro Life Third Party” in the event that the former New York Mayor heads the ticket. In his illiterate and all-but-unreadable new book “Independents Day,” CNN’s fatuous fraud Lou Dobbs expresses similar eagerness to abandon the traditional two-party system. “Now I don’t know about you,” he harrumphs, “but fundamentally I don’t see much of a difference between Republicans and Democrats…The creation of a third, independent choice, one that has the concerns of American working people as its basis, is the way we must proceed.”
This unquenchable enthusiasm for new parties and marginal, ego-driven candidacies rests on a foundation of profound ignorance and unassailable historical illiteracy. Even a nodding acquaintance with the American past reveals uncomfortable...
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
Multiparty systems are more fluid, but the same thing happened with the Labour Parties in Britain and Australia. Of course what happened then was the electorate was greatly expanded, so the new working class voters made Labour or the Socialists one of the largest parties, displacing the Liberals in Britain and Conservatives in Australia.
What happened to the Progressive Conservatives in Canada is also relevant. In 1993 they went from being the governing party in Parliament to the fifth-largest party, from 151 seats to 2. Today's governing Conservative Party in Canada is actually the Reform party (which went from 1 seat to 52 in 1993), plus what was left of the Progressive Conservatives.
But parties in the US are more stable. All those primaries mean that the candidate who comes out has a good chance of winning and governing. It's different in Canada. If the USA gets as regionally divided as our Northern neighbor, though, big changes are possible.
I appreciate your comment more than you could ever know. Thank you.
I thought I made myself perfectly clear in my previous posts, but since you overlooked it please allow me to say again that I do NOT support Giuliani at this point in time. I would only vote for Giuliani if he ends up being the Republican candidate.
If Fred McRomneyani is the nominee, we’ll get Hitlery.
Why settle for the copy who is in denial about being the copy, when the real thing is available?
i’m deeply troubled for the Republic.
Enough will go third party (me too) that Hitlery will win. At least i’ll be able to look in the mirror without shame, knowing that i voted for THE.BEST.CANDIDATE. without respect to party.
I really like Michael Medved (and I don't like Lou Dobbs), but the vitriol in this characterization is almost offensive. Why write like that Mr. Medved?
Also, and more importantly, I do believe the Republican party has abandon it's base, and hope for a viable third party representing conservatives.
Medved would make a stronger argument if he didn't start with a blatant falsehood.
In that case, you would reward and encourage the leftward drift of the party.
Or in your case, I could vote third-party, or stay at home and not vote, and therefore encourage the leftward drift of the United States of America.
THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IS BEYOND CORRUPT, IT’S ALSO EVIL.
And what is this evil that triumphs when good men do nothing? What are we really talking about here and is it worth fighting for? Is it worth turning our heads and allowing evil to continue on while we do nothing? (and I count voting for a third party candidate when knowing that he has absolutely no chance of defeating the Democrat, and worse, actually planning and hoping to knock out the Republican candidate who otherwise might have defeated the Democrat, as doing nothing).
Corruption is accepting campaign cash from the Chinese in exchange for military hardware. Corruption is accepting campaign cash as bribes from Indonesian power brokers, from Buddhist Monks, from corrupt corporate moguls. Corruption is defined by the myriad criminal acts and practices of the Clintons and the Gores and their corrupt Democrat minions.
Corruption is the land grabs, the power grabs, the gun grabs, the bribery, the shady deals, the high crimes and treason. Corruption is the theft of campaign dollars through forced labor union deductions. Corruption is the systematic indoctrination of several generations of our youth with socialist dogma via government school systems. Corruption is the removal of God from public life and substituting in the evil homosexual/feminist agenda and the destruction of moral society. Corruption is lying to the public about global warming and the selling of the Kyoto treaty. Corruption is giving up our national sovereignty to the United Nations. Corruption is the abuses of office, obstruction of justice, lying, perjury and subornation of perjury.
The Democrat Party is thoroughly corrupt. There is no question about that, but it’s way beyond corrupt. It’s also evil.
Waco was evil. The killing of innocent men, women, children and babies is evil. Torturing them for weeks on end, gassing them, and then burning them alive is pure evil. This was perpetrated by a corrupt and evil Democrat Administration and covered-up by corrupt and evil Democrat Congressmen and Senators, many of whom you are saying should be allowed to remain in office even today.
And as bad as that is, it pales in comparison to the Democrat government sanctioned and funded wholesale slaughter of the most innocent life of all, the murder of innocent human life in the womb. This is evil. Pure evil. And this evilness is openly perpetrated by a thoroughly corrupt and evil Democrat Party. The same corrupt and evil Democrat Congress and Judiciary whom you are now saying deserve to remain in office.
IMHO, allowing these Democrats to remain in power is aiding and abetting the corruption and treason, and is acting as an accessory before and after the fact to the murderers of innocent human life. Is doing nothing and allowing this evil to triumph evil itself?
I love my country. I love the Constitution. I love life. I love God. I know that the Democrats hate my country, hate the Constitution, hate God and hate human life. I see that the only Party capable of blocking and defeating the evil Democrats is the Republican Party. I see that many races are so close that as little as a one percent siphon of conservative votes to a third party could be the difference between success and failure. I see allowing a Democrat to remain in power when it could have been prevented as a triumph of evil.
Well, I hate big government. I believe the Founders intended for government to remain severely limited in power, size and scope. The limits have been removed by successive populist, progressive and liberal governments.
Government excesses need to be rolled back and the limits enforced and our Liberty restored. That is a fact and I doubt many FReepers would disagree.
I hate socialism in all it’s forms. I think the income tax is an unconstitutional slave tax and that it should be repealed and replaced with an excise tax as the founders intended. I think social security is also an unconstitutional slave tax and should be repealed and not replaced. The same can be said of medi-care or any socialized health care program. The founders never intended any of this.
I hate government involvement in education. The public school system has become nothing but an expensive socialist government indoctrination camp. We can go on and on with all of the things that are wrong with this government and need to be fixed or removed, mostly removed, and I know that both parties share in the blame for much of this.
However, I see the Democrat Party as the leading cause and the primary mover for socialism in America. Their goal is to expand government and socialism even further. They will not rest until we have a completely socialized health care system.
They’ll continue expanding their evil government funded abortion programs. Their taking of God and faith from every aspect of our public conscience and replacing it with homosexuality, feminism, and whatever other victimhood program they can institute.
Their goals are to systematically remove whatever defenses we may have left. They’ll take our guns. You can bet on that. They’ll take our right to campaign for the values we hold dear. They’ll take our right to speak out or to openly resist.
Their goals include removing any all remaining constitutional restraints that stand in there way and then completely surrendering the last hopes for freedom and national sovereignty.
When President Gore or President Hillary signs the next round of international treaties, they’ll be turning the keys for America over to the U.N. and other socialist world government organizations. These treaties are on equal footing with the Constitution. They become the supreme law of the land. That is the way they will finally destroy the final constitutional limits and destroy American freedom once and for all. A shot will never be fired, but we will lose it all.
And, yes, there are some Republicans who allow this to happen. Even some who join right in there. I’d love nothing more than to dump them with the evil Democrats, however, there is one giant obstacle. Political majority.
In this two party system, the party that holds the majority is the party that controls the agenda. They choose who will chair the committees and what legislation will be moved and what legislation will be killed. They control which nominees get voted on and which get shunted aside. They effectively control the judiciary. They ratify the treaties. A Democrat majority plus a handful of liberal Republicans and it’s all over.
Wall-to-wall liberal activist judiciary, nothing but expanding socialist government programs as far as the eye can see, and nothing but sovereignty and freedom robbing treaties on the horizon.
You can dump the moderates and liberal Republicans if you wish, but what are you going to replace them with? Democrats? Surely you do not believe that a Libertarian or other tiny conservative third party candidate will defeat a liberal in a liberal state or district?
You will give up the Republican and give the seat to the Democrat. That’s like a two for one free gimmee for the socialists. That will only make it that much harder to obtain a Republican majority.
I’ll keep the moderates and attempt to dump the democrat in any race, thereby maintaining or increasing the Republican majority. There is no other way to block the socialists. We must overcome their votes.
Support and vote for the most conservative candidate, hopefully a Republican, in the primaries. That’s where we can increase conservative influence and send the message. But vote for the Republican in the general election. That’s were we directly re-take or increase the majority and maintain the block on the socialist agenda, and, hopefully, someday soon that majority will be large enough and conservative enough to actually start rolling it back.
FYI
I don't see myself as obsessing about Giuliani. I see myself as obsessing about those who would actually vote for him if he were the republican nominee.
I did not make the “plea”. Please see the link I provided in post #132.
Thanks for the update.
Your welcome.
Sorry, and I saw that now. I even posted in that thread, although it’s long dead. I find a lot of the comments in that thread even more relevant than 2002 - 2005. It’s always interesting to pull out these older threads and see how eerily right they turn out to be.
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