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Suspect in Pearl killing dies
Agence France-Presse ^ | November 12, 2007

Posted on 11/11/2007 11:57:59 PM PST by HAL9000

Excerpt -

Washington - A Pakistani businessman suspected of playing a role in the 2002 brutal killing of American journalist Daniel Pearl died earlier this year, shortly after being interrogated by US and Pakistani intelligence, The Wall Street Journal reported on Monday.

Pearl, a Karachi-based correspondent for the Journal, was kidnapped on January 23 2002, and killed execution-style shortly after.

The newspaper said Karachi businessman Saud Memon became a key suspect in the case because he owned a nursery where Pearl had been held captive.

Citing an unnamed senior US law enforcement official, the report said Memon was interrogated by both US and Pakistani intelligence services.

The interrogation produced information that Memon was helping al-Qaeda develop anthrax strains, the newspaper said.

~ snip ~


(Excerpt) Read more at news24.com ...


TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: achillwind; alqaeda; alqaida; anthrax; bacterialwarfare; beheadings; biologicalweapons; cia; danielpearl; fatwa; islam; islamicsnuffvideos; islamofascism; islamonazism; jihad; jihadists; media; memon; muslims; nbc; pakistan; pearl; press; rendition; saudmemon; terrorism; terrorists; wallstreetjournal; warcrimes; waterboarding; wmd
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To: ZacandPook
Politics are immaterial to me.

It is only immaterial to you because you live in freedom - something which you obviously take for granted.

intemperate comments by busy surfing Freepers on the subject only encourage them to remain so.

BS. If anything, it encourages them to get their facts straight before they shoot off about things, like, sayin, whether or not we are winning or losing a war.

And while I wouldn’t ever let my daughter marry a Freeper, I know you all to be patriotic.

Wow. So you're going to tell your daughter who she must marry? How very progressive of you.

51 posted on 11/12/2007 6:49:13 AM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
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To: Redleg Duke

Yes, but I’ll be da**ed if I’m going to sit here and let him say we’re losing the war without commenting that he’s full of it.


52 posted on 11/12/2007 6:52:12 AM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
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To: HAL9000
"........died shortly after being interrogated by U.S. and Pakistani intelligence."

Surf must have been up for waterboarding.

CPR training by interrogators optional.

Leni

53 posted on 11/12/2007 6:59:34 AM PST by MinuteGal (Three Cheers for the FRed, White and Blue !!!)
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To: ZacandPook

Do you really think the death or capture of Bin Laden means anything more than vengeance for us?

Don’t get me wrong. I believe in payback. That is why I liked the concept of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, drawing his final pathetic breaths looking up at a US Special Forces solder who is standing with his foot on what remained of the hand Zarqawi used to behead poor Nicholas Berg.

But do you really think for one single solitary moment that what happens in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan has anything to do with whether Bin Laden is dead or alive?

For the record, no way Bin Laden should be taken alive if they find him, IF he is actually still alive (which I am not convinced of)

If he IS alive and is captured, he should shot in situ, and his body anonymously buried under a ton of rubble. The Islamofacists who worship him as a God can go on believing for years that Bin Laden is out there looking over them and scheming, waiting for the right moment to strike again. Hopefully, they will get bitter when it doesn’t happen, and when they draw their final breaths, hopefully in the same circumstances Zarqawi did, it will dawn on them that what they have been doing all these years is not some kind of fight of justice, but a simple bloodthirsty pagan worship of death.

The simple truth is that it makes no difference to liberals and those appeasers who follow their liberal “religion”, because that is surely what it is.

They said we couldn’t claim victory because we hadn’t captured or killed Saddam and his boys. We did.

They said we couldn’t claim victory because we hadn’t captured or killed Zarqawi. We did.

They said we couldn’t claim victory because Fallujah was not subdued. The US Marines subdued it.

They said we couldn’t claim victory because Anbar Province was unruly. They are having unification parades with police and soldiers.

They said we couldn’t claim victory because the “surge” would never work. It is working.

The bottom line is: To liberalism and its adherents, there is nobody that the US can kill or capture, no country that can be liberated that justifies in the eyes of liberals the desire to defend ourselves. To them, all war of any kind is unjustified. They will have to forgive the rest of us for not meekly offering up our necks for their knives.


54 posted on 11/12/2007 7:02:55 AM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: rlmorel

BUMP!


55 posted on 11/12/2007 7:27:49 AM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
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To: HAL9000

GOOD!


56 posted on 11/12/2007 7:30:01 AM PST by Dawgreg (Happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.)
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To: ZacandPook
“And while I wouldn’t ever let my daughter marry a Freeper”

You have that much control over your daughter? Pray tell us how.

57 posted on 11/12/2007 7:59:17 AM PST by pepperdog
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To: Westlander
‘was helping al-Qaeda develop anthrax strains’

Wow. They found out you can dig up a dead cow.

You don't "develop anthrax strains" by digging up dead cows.

Developing a strain implies that they were growing anthrax in a lab and then killing the bacteria with diluted antibiotics. If any anthrax bacteria survived, they'd try to grow more it. The idea is to develop a strain of anthrax that can't be killed by antibiotics. In other words, they were trying to create a more effective "weapon."

The Ames strain used in the 2001 anthrax attacks could be killed by just about any antibiotic. That's why no one died in Senator Daschle's office after the anthrax letter was opened there. All 5 people who died as a result of the 2001 attacks died because they weren't diagnosed and treated until it was too late for antibiotics to do any good.

Ed at www.anthraxinvestigation.com

58 posted on 11/12/2007 8:31:47 AM PST by EdLake
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To: rlmorel

Okay. Bin Laden is dead and we are winning. Fine. Whatever.

And I was just kidding about not letting my daughter marry a freeper.

Can we at least agree that Al Qaeda is responsible for the anthrax?

Thanks.


59 posted on 11/12/2007 8:33:39 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
"...And I was just kidding about not letting my daughter marry a freeper..."

You reproduced? Good Gosh, who else knows about this?

(only kidding!)

Seriously, I don't see why it is germane to this discussion that Al Qaeda is responsible for Anthrax. By the way, I have no opinion on that. I don't regard it as a critical issue at this time. If it is important to acknowlege that there are islamofascist sympathizers and outright terrorists in the continental US who would like to do us harm, I have no problem agreeing with that.

I thought the issue you brought up is that mistreatment of captive terrorists causes terrorism. It reminds me of Ann Coulter's opinion that we don't want to piss off people who hate us and wish for our destruction, because that would make them hate us and wish for our destruction.

60 posted on 11/12/2007 9:30:03 AM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: ZacandPook
"...Senator Leahy, one of my favorite Senators..."

I give you a lot of points for honesty here, but...there are many (and I am one) who regard this man and his fellow travellers as enemies of our country. His irresponsible, no, TREASONOUS leaks of intelligence information that has crossed his desk or the desks of his staffers has made the fight against these people harder. Anything that does not make the fight easier is costing lives, and that is precisely what he has done.

61 posted on 11/12/2007 9:48:02 AM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: gonzo; DeaconBenjamin; indcons; sukhoi-30mki; Eyes Unclouded; ECM; SE Mom; Heatseeker; ...
Pakistan ۋﮧ۱م

FReepmail if you want on or off
62 posted on 11/12/2007 10:01:08 AM PST by G8 Diplomat (Creatures are divided into 6 kingdoms: Animalia, Plantae, Fungi, Monera, Protista, & Saudi Arabia)
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To: rlmorel
I thought the issue you brought up is that mistreatment of captive terrorists causes terrorism.

That is EXACTLY what he was saying...or at least it was the way I read it. And then the smoke and mirrors about anthrax- whatever. He has yet to explain that that was NOT what he was saying, so I am left to assume that that WAS his point. *shrugs*

63 posted on 11/12/2007 10:02:22 AM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
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To: StarCMC

The post above about torture by me was cut-and-paste from a section on “Motive” relating to the anthrax crimes.

The full outline is below and hyperlinked at
http://www.anthraxandalqaeda.com

Ed, one of the posters, above, has always argued that Al Qaeda was not responsible for the anthrax mailings, among other reasons, because two democrats, Leahy and Daschle, were targeted. The cut-and-paste job was to explain that the US-based Salafists responsible for the anthrax did in fact have strong reason to target Leahy and Daschle (and they have said as much). That’s all.

Kicking Al Qaeda’s butt truly does require a non-partisan approach. Just as internal bickering among EIJ leaders undermines their effectiveness, they at least conceal it from the public for the sake of presenting a united front. We should to. Ed uses the “hang em high” / bomb ‘em to smithereens type rhetoric in arguing against an Al Qaeda theory. He reasons that it is “all political.” And so it is only in the context of the true crime or intelligence analysis that I urge that politics has no role. Politics, of course, are central to our values.

StarCMC here is the context of that post. It came from a subsection in the “Motive” section relating to the “Leahy Law” and why Senator Leahy was targeted. I am by no means an apologist for the militants. I want them caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law or the ongoing war that they launched by killing the 3,000 innocents.

As my respect for the way Leahy and Specter work together in a non-partisan manner, I have the same respect for Mueller and Mukasey. I think it is in our own interest to show such respect as divisiveness only provides comfort to the enemy.

The poster is correct that the article is not about the anthrax mailings as such. It just happens to be my focus. We all have our own interests and I thought the article notable because of what it may shed to KSM’s connection to the cell weaponizing anthrax.

I. Vanguards Of Conquest

II. Means: Al Qaeda’s Biochem Program Codenamed Yogurt

a. The March 1999 Announcement Of Zawahiri’s Quest To Weaponize Anthrax

b. Zawahiri’s April/May 1999 Memos To Al Qaeda’s Military Commander Atef And Interest In Anthrax And Pesticides

c. “I Successfully Achieved The Targets”: Pakistan Scientist Rauf Ahmad’s Assistance In 1999 And 2000

d. “You Are Dead! Bang”: Ayman’s Plan To Use Charities And Universities As Cover

e. Al Qaeda’s 2001 Threat To Use Mailed Anthrax In Connection With Jailed EIJ Leader And Former Bin Laden Farm Manager Mahmoud Mahjoub

f. Taliban’s Interest In The Anthrax Vaccine Laboratory

g. The Empire Strikes Back

h. Hambali, Anthrax Lab Tech Yazid Sufaat, And Ayman’s Anthrax Bomb Maker

i. March 2003 Seizure Of Anthrax Production Documents On KSM’s Laptop And Arrest Of Bacteriologist Dr. Abdul Qudus Khan

j. 2003 Capture Of Hambali And Sufaat’s Assistants, And Seizure Of “Extremely Virulent” (But Unweaponized) Anthrax

k. Gitmo Charges And Anthrax Powder

l. Unconfirmed Claim: 2007 Capture Of Taliban Spokesman With Anthrax Packets Intended For Mailing To Government Officials

m. Access To Ames Strain

n. Made In USA: Cell Culture

In Cipro We Trust

Silica

Isotope Ratios

Curdled Milk

A Potential Lead

Mixed Genotype and Inverted Plasmid

III. Motive: Reason Senators Leahy And Daschle And The US Media Were Targeted

a. The Anthrax Letters: “Written In Language You Can Understand”

b. Profile Of An Angry Man: Ayman

c. FBI Director Mueller: Remember 9/11. Remember Oklahoma City.

d. Deterrence Against Invasion of Afghanistan

e. Significance Of Mailing Dates: Camp David Accord And Sadat’s Assassination

f. “Leahy Law” And Appropriations To Military And Security Units

g. Zawahiri’s View Of The “Lies” Of Secular Media

h. “Release Him”: Retaliation For Detention Of Blind Sheikh And Other Detainees

i. “The Far Enemy”: Zawahiri’s Victory In EIJ Debate Whether to Target US

j. Despots and Democracy

k. The CIA’s December 4, 1998 Presidential Daily Brief : The Ghost Of Sadat’s Assassin Islambouli Visits United States To Plan the Attacks Using Aircraft And Other Means

IV. Modus Operandi: “Pouring Musk On Barren Lands”

a. Targeted Assassination Of Individuals In Symbolic Positions

b. Hallmark Greetings: Egyptian Islamists’ Earlier 1996 Letter Bombs To DC And New York Papers And Symbolic Targets

c. Requirement Under Laws Of Jihad Of Warning Before Using Biochemical Weapons

d. Continuing Practice Of Sending Poisonous Letters As Threats

e. Use Of Code:

KSM And Clouds (Al-Sahab)

Jennifer Lopez Letter And Atta’s Jenny Code

“Greendale School”

“Franklin Park”

“In The Hearts of Green Birds” (Inside Green Birds)

Allusion to Atta and Genomic Sequencing of the Ames Strain

f. Summer 2001 Inquiries About Cropdusters And Helicopters

g. Choice Of Mailbox At 10 Nassau St. In Princeton

h. KSM’s Plan To Poison A Reservoir

i Al Qaeda’s Spymaster On Amerithrax

j. Poisoned Penpal: The Murder Of Chechen Rebel Leader Ibn Khattab

V. Opportunity: Tracking Potential Al Qaeda or Egyptian Islamic Jihad or Islamic Group Supporters

a. Know Not Just Your Enemy, But Who He Knew

b. Chasing Islambouli’s Ghost: A Tree Grows In Brooklyn

c. When Insiders Go Postal: US Postal Employee Ahmed Abdel Sattar

d. Charity Is As Charity Does: The US-Based Blind Sheik Followers Who Saw No Evil

e. 2001 Greenlight Of Biological Attack By US-Based Operatives

f. Hani And Nawaf On “The Straight Path”: Connecting The Kuala Lumpur, Falls Church And New Jersey Dots

g. Kandahar Souvenir: Hijacker Ahmed’s Blackened Leg Lesion in June 2001

h. Astonishing Aafia And Boston Branch Of Blind Sheik’s Services Organization

i. Hoax Letters That May Fly As Real Thing

j. North Brunswick, NJ Connection To Al Qaeda’s Website

k. “Jafar The Pilot”

VI. Sheiks, Bioweaponeers, And DARPA

a. Hardball Tactics In An Era Of Threats

b. The Education Of Ali Al-Timimi

c. “The Straight Path”: Connecting the Dots

d. GMU Center For Biodefense: Discovery Hall

e. Islamic Ruling On The Peace Process

f. The 2006 Arrest Of Former Falls Church “911 Imam” And Fellow Salafist Lecturer Awlaqi

g. Real Men Don’t Type: Ability of Intelligence To Prevent Domestic Bioterrorism

Conclusion


64 posted on 11/12/2007 11:05:11 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: Dick Vomer

65 posted on 11/12/2007 11:08:13 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: ZacandPook

See today’s press release.

ExecutiveAction Announces Press Conference to Release Threat Assessment on a Terrorist Anthrax Attack Against America

But first a comment:

Proliferation of research ventures leads to greater risk of infiltration such as occurred with Ali Al-Timimi’s infiltration of the DARPA-funded Center for Biodefense where he had a high security clearance for work for the Navy and worked about 10-15 feet from famed Russian bioweaponeer Ken Alibek and former USAMRIID head Charles Bailey. Funny thing about a avoiding “future” attacks is that — given experience tends to show these jihadists are drawing from a relatively shallow pool of recruits — it always helps to take care of old business. at the very least, so as to demonstrate that the US is not as confused as it seem in its analysis of what is going on. Fortunately, the much -heralded confusion in 2002 and 2003 relating to Hatfill just represented leaks from one of two stove-piped squads on the Amerithrax Task Force, and there is no reason to think they have not aggressively pursued all leads, leaving no stone unturned.

Now for the press release about the new monograph.

12. November 2007

ExecutiveAction Announces Press Conference to Release Threat Assessment on a Terrorist Anthrax Attack Against America
ExecutiveAction Announces Press Conference to Release Threat Assessment on a Terrorist Anthrax Attack Against America

WASHINGTONDC-EXECUTIVEACTION

ExecutiveAction today announced it will hold a press conference on Wednesday, November 14, at 10:30 a.m. at the National Press Club to release the threat assessment ? Spores: The Threat of a Catastrophic Anthrax Attack on America.

At the press conference will be:
• Neil Livingstone - CEO of ExecutiveAction and one of the nation?s top terrorism experts.
• R. James Woolsey - Former Director of the CIA and Vice President of Booz Allen Hamilton.
• Professor Yonah Alexander - Senior Fellow at the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University and author of more than 90 books on terrorism and international affairs.
• David Wright - CEO of PharmAthene, a biodefense company headquartered in Annapolis.

The monograph examines the risk of a terrorist anthrax attack on America, the challenges terrorists face to develop or gain access to an anthrax weapon, and our preparedness in the event of a strike. The assessment also contains three attack scenarios.

About the monograph, Kay Goss, former Associate FEMA Director in charge of National Preparedness, Training and Exercises, said “We tend to prepare for the last catastrophic disaster. The monograph points us toward a Future catastrophic event. The 9/11 Commission concluded that our greatest weakness in emergency preparedness for that event was lack of imagination.” This report show the necessary process to, in fact, prepare for the future.


66 posted on 11/12/2007 1:05:18 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
I want them caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law or the ongoing war that they launched by killing the 3,000 innocents.

I want them dead. Bombing the WTC was not a CRIME, it was an act of WAR.

Kicking Al Qaeda’s butt truly does require a non-partisan approach...snip...As my respect for the way Leahy and Specter work together in a non-partisan manner,

Specter is as liberal as Leahy -- it's no stretch that they work together. Just so you know.

As for the rest, I honestly don't give a hoot whatever else you have to say because anyone who believes that we are LOSING THIS WAR needs to be further educated.

Good day to you.

67 posted on 11/12/2007 1:15:08 PM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
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To: StarCMC

Well let’s start at the beginning.

The foe was a guy named Ayman with Coke bottled glasses.

As recently as 1999, his correspondence would show he gave his colleagues a hard time when they replaced a fax or upgraded a computer without his advance authorization because they had such meager funds.

Then he and his few hundred supporters — who were endlessly bickering — picked a fight with a world power.

Now billions and billions of dollars he and his network remain about the same, having shown great resilience. But now for a while there he was averaging one video every 2.7 days. Last week I read 11 books on Bin Laden terrorism, most focused on how we fared in the 1990s. If you think we are doing any better, you haven’t learned much from the history. 9/11 was entirely avoidable as was WTC 1993. As will be the next attack.

Show me a single Presidential candidate who could have accomplished what Zawahiri has.


68 posted on 11/12/2007 2:00:41 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
Show me a single Presidential candidate who could have accomplished what Zawahiri has.

Nice to see you singing the praises of our enemy.

69 posted on 11/12/2007 2:21:32 PM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
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To: ZacandPook
Now billions and billions of dollars he and his network remain about the same, having shown great resilience.

My gracious, you certainly seem to know a great deal about topics our intelligence departments find opaque, including the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden at any given moment. Perhaps instead of reading what was it, eleven books in a week about the same topic you ought to be professing...or is that what you're here for?

As far as the anthrax threat, nothing of the sort is as clear-cut as you're stating it. Weaponized anthrax was the topic of at least a half-dozen BW programs of my knowledge, including Saddam's. That isn't speculation in his case. And pursuit of his NBC programs wasn't as futile as you're pretending (for political purposes, I suggest, even while you're stating that politics is immaterial to you, which is, I am afraid, a lie, else why would you be here?); far from it, if anything it validates the worldwide suspicion toward Saddam which you're conveniently side-stepping in an effort to make our efforts in Iraq appear misdirected.

The al-Qaeda network is, if you have actually read one reputable source on the topic, much less eleven, quite a bit attenuated from that of 1998. The war is not endless, and al-Qaeda is not omnipresent and omniscient. Endlessly footnoted garbage is still garbage. Welcome to FR.

70 posted on 11/12/2007 2:34:14 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: ZacandPook
"...Last week I read 11 books on Bin Laden terrorism..."

ZacandPook...you read nearly as many books as Al Gore does! What do you do for work? That is nearly two books a night...I consider myself pretty well read, but it takes me about three days to get through a book.

I suspect if I got through nearly two books a night, my wife would divorce me...but hey, I am a slow reader!

71 posted on 11/12/2007 2:37:20 PM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: rlmorel

I should have said that I took 11 books out from the library. The local University allows citizens borrowing privileges which is cool. A beautiful FBI agent had come to visit and so I wanted to impress her with a pile of books in my bedroom. She takes exception to my suggestion that the FBI folks at Quantico really botched the Amerithrax profile in October 2001 by profiling a “lone wolf.” I recommend Peter Lance’s TRIPLE CROSS (2006) about infiltrator Ali Mohammed as Exhibit A as to why we shouldn’t be overconfident that the CIA and FBI are getting it right this time around.

The last book I read cover to cover that wasn’t assigned was the Hardy Boys in 4th grade.

I’m an index / table of contents / and highlights over key lime pie at Barnes and Noble kind of guy — looking for something I can post on FreeRepublic showing that my friend Ed is wrong. As for what I do, who has time to do anything beyond posting on FreeRepublic and why would anyone want to? (even though I went 6 years without ever letting it slip that I thought Ayman was a brilliant strategist who was whipping our ass). Oops. Won’t let it happen again.


72 posted on 11/12/2007 3:21:40 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: Billthedrill

I’ve been posting regularly for 6 years. Welcome to an anthrax thread.

The folks having the press conference on
Wednesday do not think Al Qaeda is responsible — they think Saddam is responsible. Though in their monograph and at the press conference they will sidestep the Fall 2001 mailings and focus on the need for theraupeutics.

If ever there is any evidence Saddam was responsible, I’ll be fascinated to see it. The monograph cites some newspaper articles as evidence Iraq had Ames when actually the 5 invoices from ATCC were not Ames and the attempt to get it from the UK was unsuccessful. Dany Shoham does not point to any direct evidence. Nor would my friend TrebleRebel. So one is left to assume that they could have gotten it, which likely is true. No reason to doubt Russia had it and Dr. Alibek says a senior Russian scientist was helping Iraq.

Certainly they had the means to produce a dry aerosol.

But I don’t know of any motive or choice as to targeting.

And it wasn’t their modus operandi (whereas it was Al Qaeda’s modus operandi).

It only gets interesting given Iraqi intelligence’s infiltration of Ansar al-Islam and the fact that Al-Timimi had a connection to the Iraqi embassy. But he was hardcore Salafist, to be sure.


73 posted on 11/12/2007 3:39:06 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
If you want to defeat ‘terrorism’, then understand its roots and appreciate that torture and maltreatment of detainees is one of the underlying causes not only of terrorism generally but the use of the mailed anthrax in Fall 2001.

Dennis Kucinich, I didn't know you posted on FR!

74 posted on 11/12/2007 3:50:32 PM PST by SteamShovel (Global Warming, the New Patriotism)
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To: SteamShovel

I wish someone would get back to the question I sincerely have about pharmaceuticals.

Aren’t there pharmaceuticals that are effective in getting folks to talk?

And empirically, aren’t they much more effective than torture? (I don’t watch 24 but I’m sure it’s been addressed).

Perhaps Zawahiri would not have gone on his quarter-century quest if the jailer had played chess with him and snuck him doobies instead of torturing him.

Who here has blabbed something he shouldn’t have when extremely drunk?

Who here has had his better half do the same?

Shouldn’t we just take all the folks in Gitmo and fly them to Negril, Jamaica and show them a good time?


75 posted on 11/12/2007 4:01:30 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
Aren’t there pharmaceuticals that are effective in getting folks to talk?

I think there are. Sorry about the Kucinich joke, I couldn't resist.

76 posted on 11/12/2007 4:13:08 PM PST by SteamShovel (Global Warming, the New Patriotism)
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To: ZacandPook

This paragraph from Tenet is a good summary:

“The most startling revelation from this intelligence success story was that the anthrax program had been developed in parallel to 9/11 planning. As best as we could determine, al-Zawahiri’s project had been wrapped up in the summer of 2001, when the al-Qaida deputy, along with Hambali, were briefed over a week by Sufaat on the progress he had made to isolate anthrax. The entire operation had been managed at the top of al-Qai’da with strict compartmentalization. Having completed this phase of his work, Sufaat fled Afghanistan in December 2001 and was captured by authorities trying to sneak back into Malaysia. Rauf Ahmad was detained by Pakistani authorities in December 2001. Our hope was that these and our many other actions had neutralized the anthrax threat, at least temporarily.”

- George Tenet, in At the Center of the Storm: My Years at the CIA, at 278-279 (April 30, 2007)


77 posted on 11/12/2007 4:14:18 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: SteamShovel

But I don’t understand. You mean, you guys aren’t for Colbert for President?

I mean, FreeRepublic for over half a decade has been the one safe haven from a mad world. In FreeRepublic, it was obvious to most everyone that Al Qaeda was responsible (with or without an assist from Iraq, no matter). No need to trot out that cliche “looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, probably is a duck..” line.

I just assumed that the same good sense carried over to your choice for President.

Now as for Kucinich, he at least would be clever enough to fake an alien abduction and make KSM think he was about to be probed.


78 posted on 11/12/2007 4:19:56 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
"...I’ve been posting regularly for 6 years..."

Really? What was your handle before, and why did you drop it? Were you banned?

79 posted on 11/12/2007 4:55:01 PM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: ZacandPook
I’ve been posting regularly for 6 years.

Not under this nick - it's only been active since 30 April of this year. But welcome anyway even if it's a little late.

Weaponized anthrax spores aren't actually that difficult to come up with if you've filters of the right size and are willing to be very patient. If, however, you are in a hurry or need a lot of them you can try shaving them to the appropriate size to enter the alveoli - Saddam's programs explored that (so did the Soviets and some of our own allies back in The Day).

I agree with you absolutely that the distribution is the interesting aspect of this. Some people I do trust have stated that they think several of the principals may be dead, some with help. Call it an occupational hazard of being a terrorist.

80 posted on 11/12/2007 4:57:51 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: rlmorel; ZacandPook
Thanks, rlmorel. It's tiresome listening to the same old liberal garbage about us having to 'understand' why a bunch of sixth-century savages don't like us.

We live in the twenty-first century. The savages' choices are clear ................... FRegards

81 posted on 11/12/2007 7:23:34 PM PST by gonzo (http://www.forsalebyowner.com/listing/63472)
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To: rlmorel

My handle was PokerBuddy. I asked the Admin for all my posts to be deleted. He obliged after being annoyed by several requests. That was in the days of the erudite Great Satan when anthrax threads were robust and entertaining. He argued the Administration was concealing that Saddam was responsible for the anthrax and that the Hatfill litigation was an elaborate intelligence disinformation campaign involving the cooperation of the federal judge, etc. Now all we get are pictures of silica particles.

I’ve also recently asked that all my ZacandPook posts be deleted. More than once. Never got any response. If anyone could help, if any of you have any pull with Admin — on the grounds that I’m a consumer advocate who has said he’d never let his daughter marry a Freeper —it would be much appreciated. Accuse me of “boll weevil” approach in defeating advocacy of an Iraq anthrax theory. You folks should be allowed to trumpet an Atta-meeting-in-Prague theory or a KSM-was-not-KSM theory or a Bin-Laden-is-dead theory without being nagged that US-based infrastructure of supporters of blind sheik Abdel-Rahman kicked your ass again with the anthrax mailings just like they did with 1998 embassy bombings, Cole, 9/11.

I’ve never even sat at a Thanksgiving dinner table in over a quarter century with a Freeper. Do you folks call it Thanksgiving or do you call it “Wiping out an indigenous people day”?

The only thing LM’s Iraq theory had going for it was a really interesting candidate for processor — an assistant professor who was expert with the anthrax simulant BT from whose dorm room a reporting room was made about WTC by one of the convicted plotters to a charity in Pakistan.

But she made the familiar mistake of assuming that because someone was Iraqi he was a supporter of Saddam rather than a Salafist.

Heck, I’ve even argued that the US sold a couple hundred combat configured helicopters to Iraq during the height of the Iraq-Iran war that were equipped with quick release pesticide release mechanisms and that the cover story that they were for aerial spraying missions by the Agriculture Ministry.

Now that comes pretty close to suggesting that the US armed Iraq and that it is pretty galling that Freeper types then use Saddam’s chemical weapons as reason to invade a sovereign people (after it was the US that armed Iraq). Even sold them the anthrax from ATCC.

Given that PokerBuddy was deleted and I’m PokerBuddy, that is reason enough under the very fair rules for zotting out ZacandPook. I mean this is your club and you should be able to enforce the very reasonable protocols lest Zawahiri think that it will be easy to destroy Western Civilization.


82 posted on 11/12/2007 11:33:13 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

errata
“who was expert with the anthrax simulant BT from whose dorm room a reporting room was made about WTC by one of the convicted plotters to a charity in Pakistan.” -—> should read that a “reporting call” was made.
See LM’s book “1000 Years For Revenge.”

” cover story that they were for aerial spraying missions by the Agriculture Ministry.” -—> should read “ cover story that they were for aerial spraying missions by the Agriculture Ministry was crock.”

Heck, I’m in favor of peaceful resolution of disputes and that has got to be against the Freeper Credo. How are you folks going to have us invade Iran if you have these pesky peace-loving types in your midst?


83 posted on 11/12/2007 11:44:04 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

The more important reason for zotting all posts is “loose lips sink ships.” I’ve told who was responsible for the anthrax mailings in great detail over the years which only serves to undermine national security potentially (just as does, by the way, discussing methods of weaponizing anthrax as is commonly done on this forum). Very bad idea and it should absolutely not be allowed by Admin.


84 posted on 11/12/2007 11:47:25 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

Oh, and did I mention that the Al Qaeda infiltrator Al-Timimi had a high security clearance for government work, a letter commendation from the White House and worked briefly for Andrew Card while he was at DOT?

And you wonder why Gonzales never briefed my favorite Senator Leahy?


85 posted on 11/12/2007 11:53:03 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

A Soviet spy who was honored posthumously for infiltrating the top-secret Manhattan Project reportedly worked for a time in Oak Ridge during the war years and his co-workers are still doubting he was a spy.

Even after Bin Laden and Mullar Omar award Al-Timimi the Ibn-Tamiyah Medal of Honor some Freepers and Woolsey will be arguing Saddam is behind the anthrax.
Soviet spy reportedly worked in Oak Ridge

By Frank Munger (Contact)
Tuesday, November 13, 2007

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/nov/13/soviet-spy-reportedly-worked-in-oak-ridge/

I wonder if Mr. Woolsey recalls the example of Aldrich Ames?


86 posted on 11/13/2007 1:23:36 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

I appreciate you have taken all this time to respond, but...you really sound like being in front of a computer engaging in this type of discourse is not the most healthy use of your time.

Nothing personal...but you sound a little bit on the obsessive side, and not completely coherent. Are you surprised that people might ask to have you banned? Besides the obvious trespass of registering under a new name after being banned, you have the sound of someone who might drive halfway across the country to find someone who offended you in a post.

I really don’t think these forums are well suited to you. Not saying it to be mean, just my opinion.


87 posted on 11/13/2007 4:00:54 AM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: rlmorel

No. You’re mistaken.

That’s Ed’s theory, which is stupid as his theory that it is a FACT that a 1st Grader wrote the letters.

I’m just doggedly trying to expose Al-Timimi’s infiltration of US biodefense.

Pakistan scientist Rauf Ahmad, who the WP reports I first identified publicly, was a dead end in his helping infiltrating UK biodefense for Zawahiri. But Ali Al-Timimi’s infiltration was not.

If you don’t think it a worthwhile goal, then we just disagree.

Suspect and A Setback In Al-Qaeda Anthrax Case - washingtonpost.com

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ article/2006/10/30/AR2006103001250_pf.html

I have been trying to get Admin to delete the posts for a variety of reasons to include copyright, and he hasn’t obliged. Book publishers don’t kindly to knowing that the material has been posted already and so I’m willing to get creative in having the ZacandPooks posts zotted. And, separately, if you don’t appreciate that the posts by Ed and TrebleRebel about weaponizing anthrax are unsound policy, then we disagree on that also.

Perhaps you could weigh in to Admin with the very point you make as I only want the material removed which seems a reasonable request given the myriad of reasons.


88 posted on 11/13/2007 4:54:32 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
Actually, the comments I made had nothing to do with weaponized anthrax...

It had to do with your comments about not letting your daughter date Freepers, and "...I’ve never even sat at a Thanksgiving dinner table in over a quarter century with a Freeper. Do you folks call it Thanksgiving or do you call it “Wiping out an indigenous people day"?..."

Given that FR has only been around since the mid-nineties, I can see why you haven't been able to reach the quarter century Freepless Thanksgiving milestone.

But the comment about wiping out indigenious people was just bizzare. Perhaps that is your personality and the way you jump from topic to topic, but I think most people read that and think that, in some way, you might not be firing on all cylinders.

That, and your constant stated desire to have your posts pulled...to me it presents the mental image of someone speaking in a seemingly irrational fashion, then clamping their hands over their mouth as if they didn't want it to escape. Personally, I try not to write anything online that I wouldn't want posted on the wall outside my office.

Again, nothing personal (since I don't know you personally) but your online persona comes across as odd, to be polite.

89 posted on 11/13/2007 9:45:26 AM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: ZacandPook

Here is an example of a jailer sneaking the prisoner a treat and obtaining information by showing kindness from today’s Fox News.

WASHINGTON - After confessing to slaughtering 180,000 Kurds and plotting to build a doomsday nuke, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein was so upset when his FBI interrogator left for home that he cried like a baby.

FBI Special Agent George Piro whipped out two Cuban Cohibas - Saddam’s favorite cigar - and they smoked on the patio behind his cell at Baghdad’s airport.

“When we were saying bye, he started to tear up,” Piro recalled in the new book “The Terrorist Watch: Inside the Desperate Race to Stop the Next Attack.”

The self-effacing G-man was hardly surprised - he had spent nearly a year carefully becoming Saddam’s best friend in a successful ploy to extract confessions from the notorious brute.

Piro’s inside account of spending up to seven hours a day, every day, for eight months with Saddam is revealed in the new book by journalist Ronald Kessler.

Piro, then 36, began grilling Saddam in early 2004.
Instead of bright lights, loud music or waterboarding, the Beirut-born Arabic speaker - who immigrated to the U.S. as a teen - built a rapport with the dictator nabbed in a spider hole. He treated him with respect and took care of his every need.

On his birthday, Piro showed Saddam news clippings showing that Iraqis no longer celebrated the date. But then the agent gave him baklava Piro’s Lebanese mother sent him in Baghdad.


90 posted on 11/13/2007 10:22:02 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
obtaining information by showing kindness

According to your article he was extracting confessions so Saddam could be convicted and hung. Anyway, it looks like your attempt to insult Freepers and get banned again has failed.

91 posted on 11/13/2007 3:07:25 PM PST by palmer
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To: palmer

National Interest (published by the Nixon Center)

Torture Is Not A Republican Value
http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=16118

“But I do not know a single working-level intelligence or law enforcement officer who approves of torture as an interrogation tool. Torture produces bad information. As every intelligence officer or police officer who has had access to information believed to be produced through harsh interrogation knows, the information that comes from physical abuse is unreliable and frequently false. Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi was rendered to the Egyptians, who tortured him. He told interrogators that Al-Qaeda had sent operatives to Iraq for training in biological and chemical weapons, false information which was included in Colin Powell’s unfortunate address to the UN Security Council in February 2003.

...

Even the Israelis no longer use torture—they have learned that they can obtain much more from their prisoners by treating them well and using normal police-style questioning. Ironically, using coercive interrogation methods can make stopping terrorists more problematic, as many foreign intelligence services and police forces are reluctant to share information with any agency that is known to torture.

Finally, if the United States accepts that torture is a permissible practice it opens the door to the same or worse treatment for U.S. soldiers and diplomats who fall into the hands of terrorists. That is a door that should not be opened.

Philip Giraldi is a former CIA counter-terrorism expert and presently serves as the Francis Walsingham Fellow for the American Conservative Defense Alliance.”


92 posted on 11/13/2007 3:47:15 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

Ron Kessler’s new TERROR WATCH: INSIDE THE DESPERATE RACE TO STOP THE NEXT ATTACK (2007) book (see New York Post article today) says this about anthrax:

“in the initial questioning, KSM provided vital information on al Qaeda’s efforts to secure biological weapons. He admitted having met three individuals involved in the organization’s efforts to produce anthrax, a deadly biological agent. One of the individuals he identified as a terrorist named Yazid Sufaat.

Khalid al-Mihdar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, the two hijackers who slipped into the United States in July 2001, were known by the intelligence community to have attended an Al Qaeda summit in January 2000 at Sufaat’s apartment at Kuala Lumpur.

KSM apparently believed that the United States already knew about Sufaat, because Sufaat had been captured and taken into foreign custody before KSM’s arrest. [Sufaat was captured in December 2001].
If fact, U.S. intelligence did not now about Sufaat’s role in al Qaeda’s anthrax program.”

Information from Sufaat then helped lead to the capture of his two principal assistants in the anthrax program, preventing al Qaeda from developing anthrax for attacks against the United States.” (p. 59).

His assistants were Barq and Wahdan. One was Egyptian and one was Sudanese.

The passage refers to KSM’s capture. He was arrested, I believe, on March 1, 2003. I believe the subject of the article posted in this thread was arrested on March 7, 2003. It seems that KSM’s capture may have led to Memon’s capture, perhaps through a traced call.

Sufaat was captured in December 2001, news of the arrest was public in March 2002, the FBI first briefly interviewed him in November 2002, focusing their questions on how he knew Zacarias Moussaoui.


93 posted on 11/13/2007 4:07:37 PM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook
"...Finally, if the United States accepts that torture is a permissible practice it opens the door to the same or worse treatment for U.S. soldiers and diplomats who fall into the hands of terrorists..."

You are kidding, right? Do you have any idea what these people have done to our soldiers that they HAVE captured?

I am talking about the ones we have found DEAD after the fact? Do you know what these beasts do to people? Do you have any IDEA what our troops found in Fallujah when they took down the city? People chained to walls and left to STARVE to death. People WITH THEIR LEGS cut off in a way so they wouldn't die right away, left to die in a slow, excruciating fashion.

Our Marines found execution buildings that had written SCHEDULES...what time to bring the victim in...how long it would take to film...how long to cut off their heads...how long to assemble the video and what time to leave the premises to get the tape out for the next news cycle.

You think that ANY forbearance shown to these subhuman scumbags is going to result in BETTER or MORE HUMANE treatment of any captive they manage to obtain? What kind of absolute IDIOCY is that? Do you think that perhaps they might saw off the heads of their captives faster or something to make it hurt less?

Do you, or any of these supposedly erudite boneheads think that if we play nice games of patty-cake, make them our buddies and feed them orange glazed chicken with rice pilaf, that they are going to change their ways?

What planet do you and those people live on?

94 posted on 11/13/2007 9:26:03 PM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: rlmorel

On effective interrogation technique, I recommend Kessler’s book to you at page 96-97. Forgiving certain excesses, such as his mention of Mayfield’s fingerprint being an “identical match” (as opposed to, as I recall, a 6-point match), it is very compelling how the media unfairly belittles what are actually CIA and FBI successes. For example, summarizing familiar issues from the media, he argues that the media does not appreciate the changes over the 6 years and how the FBI focuses on intelligence gathering instead of arrests. That is, they view the suspect as an intelligence gathering platform. For example, I found persuasive his discussion of NSA intercepts (versus FISA).

An ardent defender of the FBI, he adopts the FBI approach of interrogation and argues that the torture is counterproductive and leads to bad intel. He explains the FBI agent’s approach to interrogating Saddam at some length.

So I take the FBI’s view of interrogation and you disagree. Okay.

In an undergrad ethics 101 course I was auditing, I was aghast that many people around me were cheating. I certainly wasn’t about to cheat because others did. And the fact that these others were not influenced by my not cheating didn’t even enter into the equation. Under the logic of your argument, your cheating would have been justified by your classmate’s cheating.

The maltreatment of American soldiers in Iraq, top American generals would argue, is precisely why it is so important not to lose the high moral ground. A top FBI official in the Kessler book makes the point that much of the war against terror is a battle for hearts and minds. Posts such as those that began this thread or the post that began a duplicate thread “I hope he died in pain” are the reason O’Reilly dismisses FreeRepublic as [whatever he said]. Those conservatives who understand and take to heart the points made in Kessler’s book should be heard about immoderate bloodthirsty remarks on FreeRepublic which only undermines respect for the US. As the fellow from the Nixon Center points out, Ronald Reagan would never have favored torture. Bush doesn’t favor torture. Gonzales didn’t favor torture. I have no idea why you favor torture.

As for waterboarding, which some define as “torture” and some do not, perhaps you can explain why pharmaceuticals are not effective. As I don’t know enough about the subject to know. Why doesn’t amytal or brevital work better than any coercive technique?

As the FBI interrogator of Saddam explains in his book, the key to effective interrogation is preparation — by mastery of the subject (knowing the person’s life) you are able to better able to detect deception and inconsistencies. Of course, the scotch whiskey helped too.

Two agents, one taking notes, with a secret recording being made, is the norm. And it is the preparation that makes for a good or bad interrogation.

The interrogation of anthrax lab technician Sufaat in November 2002 by the two FBI agents, in my opinion, and based on the defense counsel’s description, was not effective interrogation. Appropriate intelligence analysis would have led to the conclusion by early 2002 that he was involved in Ayman’s anthrax weaponization program.


95 posted on 11/14/2007 3:11:46 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: rlmorel

I agree with the head of the FBI’s international counterterrorism who says on this issue of treatment of prisoners:

“While the FBI likes to think it takes the moral high ground, ‘That’s not really the driving reason,’ Cummings [who heads the FBI’s international counterterrorism operations] says. ‘The driving reason’s, frankly, because we think we are much more effective as an organization working that way.” Kessler, “The Terrorist Watch: Inside the Desperate Race To Stop The Next Attack” (2007)

And I agree with Michael Morrell, associate deputy director of the CIA, who says “a big factor is ‘winning hearts and minds.’”

Kessler explains: “the CIA believed that actual torture involving infliction of pain produced bad information.” Kessler quotes David Manners, former station chief in Jordan: “Beating a guy up doesn’t work. He will tell you anything to stop the pain. We never used such tactics.” (p. 91)

You can be darn sure, although I do not have a quote handy, that both Judge Mukasey and FBI Director Mueller think torture is both morally repugnant and ineffective.

The electrical shocks used by the Egyptians on hundreds of fundamentalists after Sadat’s assassination has hardened many fundamentalists into jihadis on a quarter-century quest for revenge.


96 posted on 11/14/2007 3:34:51 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

I note that half your posts are to yourself.

I now understand why.


97 posted on 11/14/2007 3:40:09 AM PST by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: rlmorel

Special Agent Piro (at the time, a G-14) who interrogated Saddam — who had his mom send Saddam pastries upon Saddam’s birthday — upon his return to Washington was put in charge of protecting the nation’s capital from an Al Qaeda attack.” (p. 158)

“When Piro had asked his mother to send him her Lebanese cookies and pastries, he had not told her why. After he returned home, he told her in August 2004 that the goodies were for Saddam for his birthday.”

“Playfully, she gave her son the FBI agent a hard smack on the back of his head.” (p.159)

You disagree on this issue of torture, rlmorel, with Agent Piro. You are entitled to your opinion as are other posters. And I’m entitled to agree with Agent Piro and commend his work.


98 posted on 11/14/2007 4:36:51 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

Kessler quotes Robert Mueller on the issue of infiltration (which is my interest in that it relates to anthrax weaponization):

“Al Qaeda is tremendously patient and thinks nothing about taking years to infiltrate persons in and finding the right personnel and opportunity to undertake an attack. And we cannot become complacent, because you look around the world, and whether it’s London or Madrid or Bali or recently Casablanca or Algiers, attacks are taking place.” (p. 222)

Although Kessler makes a strong argument about the unfair treatment the FBI has received in the press, his argument would be sounder if he didn’t try to dismiss the $170 computer debacle in a single sentence as a mere “toe stub.”

It’s not at all Director Mueller’s style not to take responsibility for mistakes.


99 posted on 11/14/2007 6:56:16 AM PST by ZacandPook
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To: ZacandPook

errata -

that should be “$170 million computer debacle,” leaving the FBI without that envisioned improvement in its computer capability.


100 posted on 11/14/2007 7:26:26 AM PST by ZacandPook
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