Book Bucks Bombing Theories

NewsOK.com ^ | November 24, 2007 | Nolan Clay

[IllumiNaughtyByNature]

How about the early reports of firefighters seeing munition stored under the building after the explosion(s) ripped it open? check youtube.

How about early news reports of multiple explosions and the ones that the removed and disarmed?

Still may too many questions. Any ex-govt agent has to have the book scrubbed by the agency anyway.

[IllumiNaughtyByNature]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BZHDiZR_kA

[teeman8r]

i worked on some video projects with the louizeaux, nice guys, but they would tell you no matter what the construction of a building is, it can come down with the setting of the right implosives...

teeman

[mad_as_he$$]

I understand they can take anything down. But I would like to know if it was poorly constructed - in their view. If it was then much of the "bomb was not big enough" stuff goes away.

On the other hand I have experimented with amfo over th years for excavation uses and found it to be quite potent if properly mixed.

[teeman8r]

in my discussions, the buildings going up are all designed to come down easily because of the effieciency in the steel structures... support columns and knowing where to place the charges or cutting lines.... bombs the cut through steel to start the imploding process... gravity and mass do most of the work.

as for the ok building... what i know about it is any blast will deflect when it engages mass and forcing enrgy and debris towards a path of least resistance...

pelligrino’s book, ghosts of vesuvious and ghosts of the titanic are good reads on blasts and the pockets of safety within them... good reads.

but the fact that the ryder truck roof had less of substantial resistance than the sides, would tend to make the majority of the blast go up instead of out and the deflection or reverberation off the ground might have kept the blast from wiping out more of the ground floors keeping the building from total collapse.

teeman

[mad_as_he$$]

I agree about the roof and have a general understanding of how CDI works. I have watched every piece of video I can find on them going back years. I was a doubter about the OK explosion until Mythbusters blew up a concrete truck using a version of amfo that was dry. They topped off the mixing barrel which was half full of hardened concrete and lit it off. Very little truck left and the barrel was constructed of at least 1/4' steel - way stronger than the Ryder Truck. Now I am certain that in that case the concrete at the bottom helped focus the blast up but it was very impressive.

As far as OK city the damage looks consistent with the location of the truck, did they get McVeigh to park it in exactly the right place???

[Elsiejay]

It struck me as very odd that after about two days of reports that the FBI was seeking the dark-haired, swarthy complexioned “mystery” man, suddenly we were swamped with allegations that the underlying motivation for the Murrah Bldg. bombing stemmed from those nefarious volunteer civilian militias, a handy target group of citizens that, if they voted at all, would not have voted for Bill Clinton. Much effort was expended, with the full cooperation of the LibMSM, in establishing virtually out of whole cloth a link between McVeigh and “racist, Christian(?) separatist” militia crackpots that supposedly motivated him to hate the government.

In a like manner, the Clinton Machine chose to demonize the Nat’l Rifle Association as the culprits responsible for the Columbine High school shootings, another group of citizens that as a group failed to support the election of Clinton, but had nothing whatsoever to do with the tragic shootings.

[teeman8r]

too many coincidences not to suspect that the gubmint is not being forthright with us... padilla with ties to the phillipines as well as mcveigh’s buddy nichols... and padilla being “caught” coming from a training camp... why was he being watched...

the question is why aren’t they allowing the connection... too many security breaches and not enough legacy...

teeman

[supercat]

So why were these columns destroyed?

The building had an alcove on the side facing the blast. The blast would have imparted considerable upward force on the floor immediately above the alcove; it is entirely reasonable to believe that the joints between the pillars below the alcove and the members above were designed to resist downward force only (the upper members essentially resting on the lower ones). Since there should normally be a huge downward force and essentially zero upward force, this would not be a problem in any 'reasonable' scenario.

The blast, however, combined upward force on the floor above the alcove with lateral force on the pillars. Essentially, it lifted the floor off the pillars, swept them out of the way (easy once the floors above were no longer resting out of them), and then dropped the floor. Although columns failed that weren't over the alcove (I believe they were two such), those were the two columns that were closest to the blast, and they would have also been subject to considerable lateral stress from the failed parts of the building.

[Brucifer]

Is this the same FBI that went into the Waco Davidian compound full of women and children with tanks flying the American flag... and then lied their asses off about pyrotechnics and everything else?

Friggen stormtroopers. I used to respect those guys.

[BwanaNdege]

An Air Force office responsible for the bomb damage testing range at Eglin AFB wrote about a series of tests done to simulate the OKC bombing.

Bottom line: No way that ANFO in a Ryder truck parked where it was could have sheared rebar reinforced columns.

While I’m not EOD or demolitions, I did help blow about 20,000 lbs of Composition B, C-4 and various shaped charges while destroying tunnel complexes in Vietnam. This man’s assessment rings true.

If I run out of things to do, I’ll look up a link

[BwanaNdege]

Here’s a link: http://www.all-natural.com/oklahoma.html

[ReignOfError]

And of you go through bomb damage calculations for an ANFO bomb, the lbs per square inch is not enough to shatter the concrete columns several yards away from the blast point.

According to the calculations done by retired USAF Gen. Benton Partin. Other folks' calculations differ. The TV show "Conspiracy Test" re-created the explosion -- twice, actually, since the first test destroyed the computers monitoring their sensors -- and found overpressures in line with the official conclusion, 5,500 psi, not the 500 claimed by Partin as a maximum.

I think "Conspiracy Test" is produced by Channel 4 in the UK, but I can't find their site for it. It aired on the Discovery Channel. Before you dismiss the result as the product of TV researchers or a special effects shop, the test was conducted by the Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center at New Mexico Tech.

[supercat]

An Air Force office responsible for the bomb damage testing range at Eglin AFB wrote about a series of tests done to simulate the OKC bombing.

I read that. I don't recall any mention of the test structures having an alcove like the one on the Murrah building. Since the alcove is the key to the structural failure, any tests done without a similar structure are meaningless.

Most notably, the alcove is going to cause a lot of the energy from the explosion to be applied on the underside of the floor above. Many floor structures are designed to withstand considerable downward pressure from above, but not upward pressure from below. Since they normally won't have anything significant pushing up on them, there's no need to brace them against such forces. If the floor was made of concrete reinforced with steel cables, upward force could easily cause the concrete part to crack and fail. Once the concrete failed, the cables would produce considerable inward tension on the outer columns, quite likely enough to guarantee that either the the outer columns or the cables would fail.

Unlike the Twin Towers, which had considerable structural redundancy (not unlimited--eventually the fire destroyed so many structural elements that the building collapsed) the Murrah building had essentially none in the area of the alcove. For a test to be meaningful, it must evaluate:

1. How much structural damage to the floor would be necessary, in various scenarios, before a chain reaction would cause the observed damage. My guess would be not a whole lot.
2. How much blast energy, and in what sort of pattern, would be required to cause those scenarios.
3. Could such a pattern of energy be caused by an ANFO bomb.

I have not heard of tests laid out in such fashion.

[geopyg]

There was another History or Discovery channel thing that had the pros and cons of the whole thing (may have been done in Utah, or perhaps New Mexico???). One guy said a charge near one (or more?) columns was used, others saying a truck could do it. They rigged an entire truck up with anpho in the manner described by McVeigh and had sensors rigged on a column the proper distance away etc. They set the thing off and not much crater as I recall, and about the only thing left of the truck was the axle. However, the remote computers were destroyed by the blast (not remote enough!).

So - they rigged it up again (with the truck, but on a platform the same height as the truck) and brought the new computer into the bunker with them (a mile away or something!) The pressure sensors measured lateral pressures MUCH stronger than what was needed to bring the columns down.

I definitely think its possible there is a cover-up in who was involved, specifically Muslim terrorists because we don’t want to “upset” people. But the government blowing up their own building is a bit too much IMHO.

[mad_as_he$$]

Thanks, I will look for that show.

While at a customer site today I ran into a mining engineer that specializes in explosives. I asked him if he thought the Ok City bomb was strong enough to do that much damage and he said "I have doubted it for a minute."

[geopyg]

Opps- see post 53 for the details on the show. And did you mean to say “I have NOT doubted it for a minute”?

[mad_as_he$$]

Yea - some days fingers and brain have poor connectivity!!!!

[metesky]

"I've not seen any of the documents ... but I'm told

Well OK then...

[Pat Living]

I saw both the composite drawings at 9.30 am the morning after and was able to identify JD1 and knew that I saw a JD2. You need to remember the people at Elliotts Body shop helped the FBI draw up those drawings of the two people that rented the Ryder truck and were good enough to make a positive ID on JD1. As for a new thorough investigation on JD2 we haven’t seen or heard of any of the wittness being interviewed by the FBI around here in years. I wonder if this is the same commander that lost hundreds of documents and interviews pertaining to the OKC bombing investigation.