Let me say I’m 100% opposed to Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church and what they are doing. However, this $11 million judgment bothers me. What exactly did the church do to cause $11 million of damages? They are disgusting slugs, but when did the 1st Amendment start prohibiting speech we don’t agree with? This isn’t like the case of shouting fire in a crowded theater. Public safety isn’t at risk, nor is Fred Phelps advocating (to my knowledge) illegal activities. Opinions?
When it is deliberate, outrageous, provocative Fighting Words that is some states and societies could have/should have gotten them shot dead.
The government didn't do anything to impinge upon their first amendment rights. But the family of the soldier also has rights, and the Phelps mob violated them.
VILE....EVIL people who have done WORSE than yelling FIRE in a theater!! If you think this is Free Speech where they say AWFUL things about DEAD SOLDIERS at their FUNERALS, you are pathetic. Have you NO DECENCY, SIR?
“Public safety isn’t at risk, nor is Fred Phelps advocating (to my knowledge) illegal activities.”
Actually public safety is at risk...I can’t believe that he and/or his rubes (useful idiots to you SWW members) haven’t been shot at yet! Oh, and ‘posters’ at funerals is real tacky (but make great birdshot targets)!
Who was sued and who got the judgement agaist them.
I think the judgement was against the people. The church was included. The church has the money but since there is no judgement against the church entity it will cough up no money. Things can continue as before with the church sending its minions on missionary endeavors.
IIRC .. this was a civil suite case and not a governement case
“They are disgusting slugs, but when did the 1st Amendment start prohibiting speech we don’t agree with? “
1st amendment may protect their right to say whatever they want. It does not protect them from public condemnation.
If they did their dirty deed anyplace other than a funeral it would be distasteful but not (IMO) criminal. By doing it at the funerals they are causing emotional distress to the families. I’m ok with the 11 million and hope the life of this family is pure misery.
“Let me say I’m 100% opposed to Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church and what they are doing. However, this $11 million judgment bothers me. What exactly did the church do to cause $11 million of damages? They are disgusting slugs, but when did the 1st Amendment start prohibiting speech we don’t agree with? This isn’t like the case of shouting fire in a crowded theater. Public safety isn’t at risk, nor is Fred Phelps advocating (to my knowledge) illegal activities. Opinions?”
It’s because of the emotional duress inflicted upon the family for one. Secondly the funeral was more than likely a private affair and the inbreds “invaded” the family’s privacy.
Yeah phelps may have the “right” to free speech, but on the flip side the family has the “right” to sue his ass.
phelps and his klan of inbreds have no business “protesting” at these funerals because these soldiers are not public officials.
It’s nothing more than some sick demented publicity stunt.
I’m with you on this. Completely against what they do, but the civil award is wrong as well. It’s based on emotion rather than law. These nuts are nearly all smart attorneys who know their limits.
We have allowed this entire thread to get sidetracked by the First Amendment issue.
There IS no First Amendment Issue.
The case is based on the actionable tort of willful infliction of emotional distress. It was done with premeditation and done to maximize outrage. At no point is the Government or it legislators attempting to suppress the excercise of free speech, or the practice of religion. Certain laws or norms trump anything. Try to establish a church that conducts Human Sacrifice, for example.
It's all abstract anyway, since the "church" has unlimited free resources to stretch the case out forever, and it is unlikely they will ever pay anything.
You have a Constitutional right to your political opinions. You can voice your opinions in public until your throat is raw.
However, if you disrupt the funeral of one of my family members to communicate to his grieving family that he deserved to die, I will do whatever I legally can to make your life a living Hell until the day you die.
What Phelps did is not protected free speech. It comes under the category of Fighting Words.
The 1st Amendment guarantees Phelps right to speak against the government without fear of reprisal. It does NOT guarantee him a right to harass ordinary citizens.
I agree. Why not just make it $11 billion? It might make more sense if this had been a class-action suit and the money was divided among all those who have been "harmed". I do feel that the families of those whose funerals were picketed are entitled to damages, but perhaps the law should be more clear on exactly how much.
The first amendment only protects the people from the government as far as having the right of free speech. The first amendment has nothing to do with actions of one against another- people have always been able to sue each other for actions and words. In the good old days differences were settled with fists and duels- but still not a free speech issue at all. The government had to act within the law toward the Phelps family in regards to their protesting funerals. Until the law against protesting at funerals was passed (even now there are restrictions) the government could do nothing about the protests. If the government had arrested or fined the Phelps family for protesting, only then it would be a free speech issue.
The government did not bring this lawsuit against the family- the family of a deceased that was targeted for protest brought the suit. That is why this is not about free speech at all. This is much the same as celebrities mouthing off and then finding their market dry up- that has nothing to do with free speech either. People are free to sue if someone disrupts a loved ones funeral, and people have every right to boycott those they don’t like for whatever reason.
I am really happy the family of the deceased won this lawsuit- something had to be done to stop those horrible people from protesting in the way and at the places they protested. I don’t care if the settlement was billions- I would feel the same.
This Phelps family has had financial backing from somewhere in order to be able to continue to do all this- maybe this settlement will force them to open their books so we can all see who supports such actions.
We had a local military funeral and they showed up. Had the service at the local school, where protesting is not allowed. The closest the Phelps group could come to the funeral was to stand in the road, and then the neighbors on both sides picked that time to burn leaves. Pretty effective.
Carolyn