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Who's Fueling Whom? - Why the biofuels movement could run out of gas
Smithsonian ^ | November 2007 | Richard Conniff

Posted on 11/24/2007 7:19:51 PM PST by neverdem

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To: P-40
He just stitched together a bunch of prefabricated arguments.

Prefabricated? What does that mean? Well researched? You people critical of the author aren't looking so good. He doesn't know jack. His arguments are prefabricated. Can we get to some specifics on where he is in error? Not to say that he isn't, but you sure haven't shown it.

41 posted on 11/24/2007 10:26:53 PM PST by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: Hunterite
Could they make biofuel out of leaves from trees ?
42 posted on 11/24/2007 10:28:00 PM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: Squantos
It reminds me of the revenuers/mafia demanding their cut. Ethyl alcohol is a commercial commodity used for more than just its euphoric effect that the "sin tax" is based upon. So they came up with the denatured alcohol, e.g. SDA 40, which is not taxed by the rate for alcohol that you can drink. It's adulturated with a chemical that makes you sick if you drink it.
43 posted on 11/24/2007 10:32:21 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: SoConPubbie

Not as noticeable as advertised........some folks say it smells like food. I think it just stinks like the diesel does...

I have steam cleaned the tank once in the year I have had it to inspect the system for rust as the tank was stell vs aluminum......but the system I have has one filter while filling the tank from a WVO waste trap. Then from the tank too my fuel line it has 3 more filters before it gets to the regular in line filter. I change or wash filters ever 10k. The truck had a filter relocation kit that makes it easy to do.


44 posted on 11/24/2007 10:36:32 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: neverdem

Agree........Well we always have drip gas right out of the pipe up here in the Panhandle of Texas.......runs good in an older flathead ford truck I have, hasn’t blowed up yet ! .......it’s free too !


45 posted on 11/24/2007 10:43:46 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: neverdem

I repeat: the quickest, cheapest and most efficient way to lessen our need for oil is to allow everyone who can and wants to to telecommute.


46 posted on 11/24/2007 11:00:46 PM PST by fightinJAG ("Tell the truth. The Pajama People are watching you.")
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To: neverdem
It seems to me government has distorted the whole bio fuel issue by offering subsidies. Now capital and other resources are pouring into something that only makes economic sense because of those subsidies. That isn’t the path to economic success... It pulls those resources from other ventures that would be economically positive. So this is burning resources unproductively costing us all.
47 posted on 11/24/2007 11:10:06 PM PST by DB
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To: fightinJAG
I repeat: the quickest, cheapest and most efficient way to lessen our need for oil is to allow everyone who can and wants to to telecommute.

That's fine for workers who can telecommute and do productive work. We need stuff to sell overseas, or our currency will crash.

48 posted on 11/24/2007 11:44:19 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem

BioFuels in the form of corn stoves offers 60% savings with a payback on investment in 3 mos.

http://www.americanenergysystems.com/HeatCalculator/index.cfm


49 posted on 11/24/2007 11:51:58 PM PST by spanalot
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To: Prophet in the wilderness
Could they make biofuel out of leaves from trees ? ************************

50 posted on 11/25/2007 12:10:03 AM PST by Hunterite
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To: P-40

A market doesn’t exist because it is expensive.

***********************************

I remember when launching something into space was a really big and expensive deal. Now it is relatively cheap. Why? There was a market for ‘stuff in space’ so engineers and scientists found out how to do it cheaply.

**********************************

I remember there still are no private rocket companies making a profit without taking welfare.

I also remember I am on a broadband cable modem, not a satellite modem.

I also remember that the future is in laying optical cables for high speed, high volume traffic.


51 posted on 11/25/2007 12:13:31 AM PST by Hunterite
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To: BJungNan
PING!

Good morning, there...

Thought this thread would be interesting. My guest this week wouldn't go as far as to condemn all and future bio-fuels, but he did sum up the current drive as farcical. His company produced copious amounts of ethyl alcohol for industrial purposes and he oversaw global distribution by the tankerload.

We were on our third bottle of "Conundrum" by then or I'd summarize his words. I just haven't had nearly enough coffee yet...

52 posted on 11/25/2007 3:13:54 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: neverdem

And no one wants to talk about drilling new wells, ANWR, offshore, places like that where there are proven reserves. How idiotic is that. When 85% of our offshore areas are now ‘protected’, burning food seems like a really nutty idea. Something only a weirdo or a liberal would understand. Maybe making biofuels from liberals is not a bad idea ...

How about we build some nuclear power plants and some coal gasification plants?

I wonder when the atmosphere was over 10% CO2 who cleaned it up? Did it need cleaning?


53 posted on 11/25/2007 3:29:02 AM PST by Tarpon
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To: P-40

Exactly.


54 posted on 11/25/2007 4:35:56 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Before the government can give you a dollar it must first take it from another American)
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To: Tarpon

I think hydrogen is where it`s at. 1 nuclear plant would would produce enough elect.to extract hydrogen from water to move us away from fossil fuels.Change your injectors fill your tank and away you go.


55 posted on 11/25/2007 4:55:15 AM PST by robroy12
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To: robroy12

> 1 nuclear plant would would produce enough elect.to extract hydrogen from water to move us away from fossil fuels

Do the math.

1 barrel of crude oil has chemical potential energy equal to 1,700 kilowatt hours.

A 2GWe nuclear plant dedicated to producing hydrogen operating at 90% electrolytic efficiency would produce hydrogen equivalent to about 26,000 barrels of oil per day. I’m not sure of the current US consumption, but I’m pretty sure that number is well under 1% of total US demand.

Hydrogen has other problems, because of the difficulty in storage, transport, and distribution.


56 posted on 11/25/2007 5:30:50 AM PST by Mr170IQ
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To: Squantos
Agree........Well we always have drip gas right out of the pipe up here in the Panhandle of Texas.

Casinghead gas in our area would zip right past the closed needle and seat and flood the carburetor. I take it you're not beset by that problem?

57 posted on 11/25/2007 6:55:53 AM PST by Ole Okie
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To: P-40

“My bet is with the engineers and scientists who will find a way to make a better product once a market for it exists.”

As someone with an engineering degree, I can tell you biofuels and solar are at best going to be small parts of the solution, the numbers just don’t add up. You have to go nuclear to have any chance of making a dent in our energy needs. Conservation actually has as big a potential as biofuels or solar (which are resource hogs).


58 posted on 11/25/2007 8:07:22 AM PST by FastCoyote
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To: Beowulf

~~ AGW™ ping~~


59 posted on 11/25/2007 8:45:47 AM PST by steelyourfaith
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To: Mr170IQ
A 2GWe nuclear plant dedicated to producing hydrogen operating at 90% electrolytic efficiency would produce hydrogen equivalent to about 26,000 barrels of oil per day. I’m not sure of the current US consumption, but I’m pretty sure that number is well under 1% of total US demand.

I doubt 90% efficiency in electrolysis is anywhere near possible. The following shows why the Department of Energy is targeting 75% as a hopeful range to reach.

Highly Efficient Hydrogen Generation via Water Electrolysis Using Nanometal Electrodes
http://www.qsinano.com/white_papers/2006_09_15.pdf

FYI, the US consumes almost 21 million barrels per day. The following link includes a breakdown of those products and historical values.

US Petroleum Product Supplied
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_psup_dc_nus_mbblpd_m.htm

60 posted on 11/25/2007 10:13:33 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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