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The Plan to Destroy Opec (Zubrin's "Energy Victory")
Energy Daily ^ | 11/28/2007 | Alan Walters

Posted on 11/28/2007 9:56:31 AM PST by cogitator

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My first reaction: it should would be nice if we could grow sugar cane like, everywhere.

And note that it is very possible to make alcohol from coal -- and we have a lot of coal in the U.S. Being me, I'd prefer bio-ethanol, but I'm also pragmatically realistic.

1 posted on 11/28/2007 9:56:33 AM PST by cogitator
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To: cogitator

Butanol. BioDiesel from algae. Stockpile fuel and then cut use to 50% for a few months.


2 posted on 11/28/2007 10:00:02 AM PST by Paladin2 (We don't fix the problem, we fix the blame!)
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To: Paladin2
We have a private school here in Alabama that produces diesel from algae and runs its two school buses and farm tractors from that with extra to give away. It is a very small scale operation and it is not that complicated of a process.
3 posted on 11/28/2007 10:03:04 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Army Air Corps

Ping to self for later read.


4 posted on 11/28/2007 10:04:36 AM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: cogitator

What will finally end OPEC’s cartel will be oil-laden algae grown on a huge scale that will produce enormous amounts of diesel fuel, heating oil and kerosene. That right there could cut OPEC’s marketshare by 40% or more.


5 posted on 11/28/2007 10:05:46 AM PST by RayChuang88
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To: cogitator

I like it, on first blush. I’m not convinced it’s as easy as mandating flex-fuel vehicles, but if it is, then I’m in. Even if it costs me more due to a loss of efficiency I would be willing to comply in order to break Opec.


6 posted on 11/28/2007 10:06:49 AM PST by Obadiah
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To: cogitator
"alcohol fuel pumps and associated infrastructure would quickly appear, and the vertical monopoly that the oil cartel holds on the world's vehicular fuel supply would be broken, as gasoline would be forced to compete everywhere against alcohol produced from multiple sources, including biomass, coal, stranded natural gas, recycled urban trash, and so forth."

This was the best point of the whole read, but I bolded a part of it because even though I think this is the best point, it should be revised;
'...as gasoline would be threatened by competition from multiple sources..."

One of the reasons that the United States has had lower gasoline prices than places like Europe in much of the past is because we have our own crude oil supplies. And while we don't tap it with vast texas oil fields like we once did, the threat or the potential of having our own options is what held foreign suppliers in check, and it's the reason they are afraid to have embargos.
The just knowing that a large percentage of vehicles on the road could switch fuel sources would be enough to affect the market.
7 posted on 11/28/2007 10:08:38 AM PST by z3n
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To: Monterrosa-24

Interesting. I’ve tried BioSiesel and it works fine in the Spring, Summer and Fall. Mixtures up to 20% work in the winter. BioDiesel price seems to follow PetroDiesel prices quite closely.


8 posted on 11/28/2007 10:10:39 AM PST by Paladin2 (We don't fix the problem, we fix the blame!)
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To: cogitator

How about let’s build a bunch of nuclear plants and also drill for our own oil? ANWR and 85% of our coastline is off-limits.


9 posted on 11/28/2007 10:11:55 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: RayChuang88

THat’s fine, but we still need to drill our own oil.


10 posted on 11/28/2007 10:12:57 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Monterrosa-24

OPEC’s real power is not holding oil cost at $100 but being able to sell at $20 and make all the other systems non profitable.

Who is going to spend billions to make a replacement for OPEC oil when at any time they can run the price down to nothing and make you loose all your investment?

We can regain some control by drilling our for our own oil and thus stopping oil from going to $200 ever but it is a lot harder to stop the price from going to $20 without total goverment control.

I’m not sure I trust our goverment with that much control.


11 posted on 11/28/2007 10:13:12 AM PST by Goldwater and Gingrich
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To: Paladin2
BioDiesel price seems to follow PetroDiesel prices quite closely.

That's because it's a direct replacement for diesel, and therefore fungible.

12 posted on 11/28/2007 10:16:00 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: RayChuang88
The only thing not discussed at all is the effect of this approach on food. Disturbing also, in the corners of the mind sort of way, is how third world countries, unable to grow food, a most basic necessity for mere survival, will suddenly will be able to grow enormous wuantities of material to produce fuels, which is not essential for survival.

Having said that, I need to read this book.

13 posted on 11/28/2007 10:16:03 AM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Goldwater and Gingrich
Does OPEC still have the power to present a unified front if the price even dropped below 60 per? Hugo has his socialism to fund.

I share you sentiments about the gov controls but what if the amount of imports were fixed? That would seem to guarantee the need to produce domestically without dropping below current import levels.

14 posted on 11/28/2007 10:19:53 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Goldwater and Gingrich
Once upon a time the government was largely funded by tariffs, not taxes. Maybe oil from OPEC should always cost $50 (OPEC price + Tariff = $50, where Tariff changes as needed).

That would ensure that oil would have a reasonable ceiling, it would provide government revenue, and it would protect the alternarive energy investments of American entrepreneurs.

15 posted on 11/28/2007 10:20:24 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: Monterrosa-24
This one?

"David James, who operates Eastwood Christian School east of Opelika, met LeBlanc during a Montgomery meeting on substitute fuels. The gathering at a state economic development agency led to a partnership and Alabama's place atop the algae-based fuel industry, James said."

16 posted on 11/28/2007 10:21:15 AM PST by Paladin2 (We don't fix the problem, we fix the blame!)
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To: z3n
---I would be willing to bet that if , tomorrow, by executive order or whatever, every US owned or controlled drill rig began to move here, with the intent to drill the California-Florida coasts, the Gulf of Mexico and Alaska , along with the announcement that 15 new refineries would be built, that by 01 January 2008, the price of crude oil would be less than $40/bbl---

--after that occurs, we should get going with nuclear power plants and coal conversion technology---

17 posted on 11/28/2007 10:21:27 AM PST by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: cogitator

Even if the world was covered in sugar cane, it would take more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than the gal of ethanol contained. It is a self defeating task or a fools errand.

The guy in this article doesn’t know what he taking about.

http://www.greatchange.org/bb-alcohol2.html


18 posted on 11/28/2007 10:24:43 AM PST by kennyboy509 (Ha! I kill me!)
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To: cogitator

The best solution has three elements: it MUST be inexpensive, it MUST be efficient, and it MUST use known, developed and commonly available technologies.

Alcohol fails in all three areas. It is expensive to create as a fuel. It has only half the energy of gasoline. And there is no alcohol engine technology that can compare to the gasoline engine.

However, what passes all three tests is biodiesel. It can be produced through a multitude of means. It has about 96% of the energy of petroleum diesel. And diesel engines are already in wide use, even in automobiles. And it is a *scalable* fuel, able to run everything from a small car to a railroad engine, to a large ship.

I am especially bullish on biodiesel produced by algae. It can be in continual production most of the year in most of the US, not the 90 day, twice a year corn crop used for most ethanol. And algae production can be multiplied by using industrial carbon dioxide and nitrous oxides, turning an expensive to dispose of waste product into profit and fuel.

Large, shallow water “trough farms” with continuous production and automatic harvest of algae, covered with the new “self-cleaning” glass to trap the CO2 and NOx gasses in the tanks after being bubbled into the water, and to keep out undesired algae strains. Soon there would be mountains of algae for easy processing into both biodiesel and some ethanol. Some algae are as much as 50% vegetable oil.

The size of land needed for fuel for the entire US is estimated at only about 800 square miles. Compare that to the over 700,000 square miles the US uses for agricultural crops! And that area would be broken up in many farms in mostly the southern US. Most would be located near the major CO2 and NOx producing industries, if possible.

Biodiesel burns cleanly, and doesn’t produce the noxious odor of petroleum diesel. In large scale production, America would have more energy and cheaper than with petroleum. And best of all, if the price of petroleum diesel dropped, the engines using biodiesel could use it as well.

Further information:

http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html


19 posted on 11/28/2007 10:27:45 AM PST by Popocatapetl
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To: Paladin2

“...”David James, who operates Eastwood Christian School east of Opelika...”

Yes that’s it. I saw the set up. The school and the alternative fuel operation are sort of mixed together in an inefficient and confused way. It cries for an old-fashioned efficiency expert. Yet they claim the bio diesel production cost is way below commercial diesel prices.


20 posted on 11/28/2007 10:28:23 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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