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Republican Presidential Candidate Debate #10 – St. Petersburg 11/28/07 - Official Discussion Thread

Posted on 11/28/2007 3:59:54 PM PST by CounterCounterCulture

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To: ansel12

I don’t know where your political head is at, supporting the democrat over the republican for that senate seat is unfathomable.
***My political head is in the fact that Huffington shouldn’t have been there in the first place. A real candidate could have taken down Feinstein. But RINOs are taking over and you see the result: democrats in power.


2,701 posted on 11/29/2007 10:19:14 AM PST by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq — via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: Kevmo

Wow!


2,702 posted on 11/29/2007 10:22:36 AM PST by ansel12 (Proud father of a 10th MountaiPn veteran. Proud son of a WWII vet. Proud brother of vets, Airborne)
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To: maica

Thanks maica, back at ya. You put it so much better than I did (late at night and so angry I literally couldn’t see straight).


2,703 posted on 11/29/2007 10:36:44 AM PST by Fudd Fan (hillery-rotten & her flying-monkeys in 08? OVER MY DEAD BODY, WitCh©®™!!)
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To: JRochelle
So who do you think won?

I didn't identify a clear winner last night, primarily because the questions were horrible. FYI--before the debate started, an audience member asked, "How many questions has Hillary Clinton planted here tonight?" Cooper chuckled.

I believe Huckabee gained points last night for those who are mostly unfamiliar with him. That includes the couple sitting next to me. They had been McCain fans from 2000, but were having doubts this time around. They didn't know Huckabee was from Arkansas, had never heard of Tancredo, Hunter, or Paul.

Using them as a gauge, they found Romney to be arrogant last night, Tancredo and Paul off their rockers. They knew absolutely nothing about Duncan Hunter, but were impressed with a couple of his responses. Thompson was underwhelming, particularly when he didn't answer the question about three programs needing to be cut. However, they were pleased by his dry wit. Several of McCain's answers reminded them why they supported him in the past. They didn't like Giuliani to start with, and he did nothing last night to improve their outlook. Huckabee time and again made them applaud, laugh, and say, "He looks presidential." Huckabee is definitely connecting with viewers.

2,704 posted on 11/29/2007 10:40:51 AM PST by NautiNurse (McClatchy News report: Half the nation's families earn below the median family income)
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To: Puddleglum

I saw the “circus” last night, so just now catching up with comments on FR.
Agree that Fred T. is the adult in the whole bunch, and has thoughtfully laid out plans on several issues. Seems he does not get the chance to express them. CNN just wanted to play games with stupid videos of kids asking dumb questions.
The whole situation is pretty discouraging when the subject of this whole mess is electing the President of the USA.


2,705 posted on 11/29/2007 11:15:27 AM PST by kaycee
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To: maica
you won’t give responsibility for success to Rudy’s executive ability.

I guess that's what I'm getting at. You make reference to success in the abstract and offer no examples of anything heroic or extraordinary that he accomplished.

Tell me about any lives he might have saved. Tell me about any terrorists he stopped or captured. Tell me about the specific things he did that you don't believe most mayors would have done. Where did he go and what did he do that was special?

If it's not possible for you to describe any of the special things he did, maybe you should go back to the person who told you he did special things and get some more information.

2,706 posted on 11/29/2007 11:27:19 AM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: maica

“That man worked has ass off and did not sleep for several weeks”

Is it a New York thing to think that going to baseball games and giving preening interviews is “working his ass off”?

http://www.rudy-urbanlegend.com/


2,707 posted on 11/29/2007 11:46:05 AM PST by Prokopton
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To: tear gas

I don’t have time to go back into old files right now, but here is one example that I remember.

There had been a student intern in a department of city government that summer who was working on developing a computer program which identified traffic patterns, and alternate or improved routes for moving big vehicles around Manhattan. This student’s work was so impressive - he was back at his university in September - that Rudy remembered him, got in touch with him and asked him if he was willing to come to New York for at least that semester, to help with the implementation of his program. It was this program that was able to identify routes to and from Ground Zero to move the masses of material that had to be carted away, during the rescue operations and after rescues were no longer the priority.

The student did put his classwork on hold and went back to NY.
I am sure that this is not the only example of Giuliani being a hands-on in charge Mayor of New York.

If you are changing the goal posts to claim that Rudy did nothing to prevent the attacks, then you are not debating in good faith.


2,708 posted on 11/29/2007 1:19:25 PM PST by maica
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To: Prokopton

What does this mean?

Prokopton : One who has become aware that he is ignorant and of his need to pursue virtue is making progress


2,709 posted on 11/29/2007 1:22:52 PM PST by maica
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To: Lexinom

Hilary should be a florist she had so many plants there. Hilary in an FTD costume.


2,710 posted on 11/29/2007 1:46:36 PM PST by floriduh voter (Terri Schindler Schiavo unwillingly gave her life to become a debate question.)
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To: Eva

cnn seemed to be pulling for Huckabee today.


2,711 posted on 11/29/2007 1:52:14 PM PST by floriduh voter (Terri Schindler Schiavo unwillingly gave her life to become a debate question.)
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To: maica
What does this mean?

Prokopton : One who has become aware that he is ignorant and of his need to pursue virtue is making progress

Read Epictetus.

2,712 posted on 11/29/2007 1:54:28 PM PST by Prokopton
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To: BGHater

The guys in the photo were both beheaded but not at Fallujah. They were kidnapped, held and then beheaded. Remember Nick Berg’s taped beheading? That’s when they went from terrorists in my book down to filthy animals.


2,713 posted on 11/29/2007 1:54:58 PM PST by floriduh voter (Terri Schindler Schiavo unwillingly gave her life to become a debate question.)
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To: OKIEDOC

CNN flew the gay general to St. Pete from California. And, they didn’t KNOW? Sure they didn’t


2,714 posted on 11/29/2007 1:55:57 PM PST by floriduh voter (Terri Schindler Schiavo unwillingly gave her life to become a debate question.)
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To: floriduh voter

I mentioned, last night, that DU is rooting for a Huckabee candidacy because they think that he would be the easiest to beat. They see him as an easy target that can be labeled as creepy and dull. They said that Huckabee = Dole. They maybe underestimating him a bit, but his national appeal, just isn’t there.

Almost everyone of the Republican candidates need to get their teeth fixed NOW.


2,715 posted on 11/29/2007 2:10:49 PM PST by Eva
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To: CounterCounterCulture


YouTube Debate Disaster for CNN; Questions Planted by Democrats



Moderates Dominate GOP Debate; Only Fred Sounded Conservative
2,716 posted on 11/29/2007 2:47:39 PM PST by Miss Didi ("Good heavens, woman, this is a war not a garden party!" Dr. Meade, Gone with the Wind)
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To: Prokopton

Who did your translation? Your prepositions do not make any sense.


2,717 posted on 11/29/2007 3:07:33 PM PST by maica
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To: Eva

Huckabee is “folksy” as in Gomer Pyler, Andy of Mayberry. It might play in Iowa but not much further than that. Hilary would trounce him. Do you have HDTV? I wasn’t noticing bad teeth.


2,718 posted on 11/29/2007 3:49:01 PM PST by floriduh voter (Terri Schindler Schiavo unwillingly gave her life to become a debate question.)
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To: floriduh voter

Yes, I have HDTV and the bad teeth were all around. You can’t get away with that any more. Huckabee’s teeth are the worst. He’d be better off with dentures on tv.


2,719 posted on 11/29/2007 3:59:15 PM PST by Eva
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To: Eva

So his teeth looked like Chicklets? Hi def - I’m jealous. lol I wonder if Hilary’s been nipped & tucked or any of them for that matter. With HDTV, did McCain look creepy? He creeps me out. He stands like a bull ready to charge - I’m for a strong leader but not for somebody who’s kinda scary to me when he’s making a point. He has an angry stare.


2,720 posted on 11/29/2007 4:06:16 PM PST by floriduh voter (Terri Schindler Schiavo unwillingly gave her life to become a debate question.)
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To: floriduh voter

No, Huckabee would have been better off with a chichlet smile. His teeth are all crooked, his gums are receded and his teeth are yellow.

Yeah, McCain looked bad. He’s had a lot of surgery on his face, so his face looks fairly wrinkle free, but the neck is very crepey. Huckabee looks kind of the same way. His neck looks a lot older than his face. He probably had to have some surgery after losing all that weight.

Thompson just looks old and has discolored teeth. But the only that didn’t have noticeably bad teeth was Duncan Hunter. He could use some tooth bleaching though.


2,721 posted on 11/29/2007 4:17:03 PM PST by Eva
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To: bdeaner

More like a bubba Clinton in my opinion.


2,722 posted on 11/29/2007 4:18:32 PM PST by altura (Go, Fred!)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

You wrote, “Mitt seems to stumble on whether he has belief in the Bible. There was a lot of stuttering, delay and faltering there. Very interesting. What happened!?”

This is what I think (emphasis: THINK) happened:

The Mormons believe that the Bible is true and accurate ...um...let’s see...I’m trying to remember how they phrase it... I think they say “...the Bible is accurate in so far as it is accurately translated...”

According to Mormon belief (I think-—and if I’m wrong, I’d be happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable of Mormon theology), the Bible has become corrupted over the centuries and is no longer entirely accurate. That’s why a new revelation of Jesus Christ was necessary (The Book of Mormon).

Whereas Rudy and Huck accepted the question as merely being “Are you a literalist Bible-thumper” type question, to Mitt ... well.... it possibly sent alarm bells ringing in his mind. Possibly, he was unsure whether or not to take this as a question targeted specifically at his Mormon theology.

He must remain faithful to Mormon theology,

... but.....
it would not go down well in the debate to out-and-out say the Bible is (somewhat?) corrupted and inaccurate.

Anyway, I THINK that this is why he was stuttering.

Regards,
Molly K.


2,723 posted on 11/29/2007 5:20:16 PM PST by Molly K.
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To: NautiNurse

“Huckabee time and again made them applaud, laugh, and say, “He looks presidential.” Huckabee is definitely connecting with viewers.”

He definitely is connecting. He is Reagan-esque in his stage presence. He hits a home run, rhetorically speaking, every time he opens his mouth.

Romney looked like a deer caught in the headlights half the time. This was his least impressive performance. He came across very poorly in his exchange with McCain over torture. He got dinged by Giuliani on the “sancuary mansion” issue, and he didn’t really have a good comeback for that. Etc.

Giuliani is looking more liberal every time. Forget it. He had the best video though. At least it was funny.

Could Fred Thompson have any less charisma? It’s very annoying that he clears his throat every 3 seconds when he’s speaking. It gives away his anxiety, and he doesn’t come across well. I agree with him on the issues, but I don’t think he can win a general election against Hildebeast. Sorry.

This was McCain’s best performance so far. He looked Presidential. But he comes across as too serious, too pessimistic, and is lacking in the kind of hope and optimism that Americans like to see in their Presidential candidates.

Tancredo, Hunter, and Paul can pretty much pack it up and go home. Why are they even still around?


2,724 posted on 11/29/2007 5:48:57 PM PST by bdeaner ("...what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this sh_t and it's over.")
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To: Molly K.
This may be the closest idea as to what was going on in the man's head. Usually Mitt is not a loss for words. It is clear he was grasping and at least his voice had the "appearance" (I listened, did not watch) of the "deer in the headlights".

What might be instructive is to see if there are any reputable "Morman blogs" out there, and what they say on this topic today, as I am sure many of the ears of LDS faithful perked up upon that question and Mitt's reply).

2,725 posted on 11/29/2007 6:30:09 PM PST by AmericanInTokyo (McCain? Giuliani? Huckabee? Paul? Mitt? In November? Then AiT Takes a Hike: 3rd Party Conservative)
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To: bdeaner
I agree with your analysis. Huckabee is charming the masses, while McCain has had two good debate showings in a row. Now I have 60 days to figure out who will get my vote.

I never imagined being undecided this close to the FL primary.

2,726 posted on 11/29/2007 7:01:51 PM PST by NautiNurse (Plants are people too)
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To: floriduh voter
What a shitty bunch that CNN n HAS BECOME.
2,727 posted on 11/29/2007 9:13:54 PM PST by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: OKIEDOC

Someone as CNN has a sense of humor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aai5vXsHlmM&feature=user


2,728 posted on 11/29/2007 9:16:11 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (- Attention all planets of the solar Federation--Secret plan codeword: Banana)
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To: UCANSEE2

Just for laughs.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhnYB7owwzo&feature=user


2,729 posted on 11/29/2007 9:17:59 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (- Attention all planets of the solar Federation--Secret plan codeword: Banana)
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To: Diogenesis; flaglady47
Technically, have never seen Romney nor his BOTS 'apologize' for anything. Instead, they evade, attack, lie, disassemble, buy off, and frankly --perhaps with the exception of Arkancide-- mimic the Clintons.

Exactly.

2,730 posted on 11/29/2007 9:25:07 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: penowa
Two words for Charlie Crist: Terri Schiavo
2,731 posted on 11/30/2007 2:36:21 AM PST by Lexinom (Build the fence and call China to account. GoHunter08.com)
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To: maica
Your prepositions do not make any sense.

This sentence is grammatically incorrect. Prepositions are words and, standing alone, do not make, or not make, sense. Perhaps you meant to say that my use of prepositions did not make sense. If this is the case, which usage of a preposition are you having a hard time with?

2,732 posted on 11/30/2007 9:06:27 AM PST by Prokopton
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To: Prokopton
This sentence is grammatically incorrect.

The sentence on your home page is grammatically incorrect.

I really would like to know what you meant by:

Prokopton : One who has become aware that he is ignorant and of his need to pursue virtue is making progress

2,733 posted on 11/30/2007 9:23:09 AM PST by maica
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To: maica
I really would like to know what you meant by:

Prokopton : One who has become aware that he is ignorant and of his need to pursue virtue is making progress

In the philosophy of Stoicism, a Prokopton is one who is "making progress:(prokope), especially in being a Stoic.

In order to make progress as a Stoic one has to understand that they need to learn i.e. that they are, to one extent or another, ignorant. In Stoicism, especially the kind promoted by Epictetus, the goal or end (telos) is virtue, that should be pursued for it's own sake and not for the sake of any other thing. Therefore, to be a person "making progress" (Prokopton) one must also seek virtue.

Prokopton, then, is a person who seeks the truth understanding his own ignorance and seeks virtue as the highest goal.

If I had to give a condensed version of Stoicism it would be that happiness (eudaimonia) can be attained by living a life of reason. A life of reason for a Stoic means living virtuously and living according to nature. Living according to nature can be described as pursuing a course responding to ones own needs as well as performing ones duties as a social human being while always accepting ones own fate and putting no importance in things outside of one's own control.

Epictetuts is prominent as a Stoic Philosopher largely because many of his writings still exist. However, his philosophy takes much from earlier Stoic philosophers going back to Zeno (of the famous Zeno's paradox) 400 years before Epictetus.

All of that being said, I am not an expert on Stoicism or Philosophy. I like the way Stoicism dovetails with Christianity and believe much of it's tenets are wise. Prokopton, though, is just a screen name.

2,734 posted on 11/30/2007 10:58:05 AM PST by Prokopton
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TRANSCRIPT:

Part 1
Part 2

2,735 posted on 12/03/2007 7:49:37 AM PST by CounterCounterCulture (Duncan Hunter / Alan Keyes 2008)
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