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Kaine wants gun show sales to require background checks
The Virginian-Pilot ^ | November 28, 2007 | WARREN FISKE

Posted on 11/29/2007 1:31:04 PM PST by neverdem

RICHMOND

Gov. Timothy M. Kaine called Tuesday for new restrictions on firearm sales at gun shows but stopped short of declaring passage of the legislation as a high priority for the 2008 General Assembly session.

Under current law, background checks on buyers are not required by unlicensed dealers who privately sell and trade firearms at the shows.

Kaine endorsed closing the loophole, saying it provides an opening for felons and mentally ill people to buy weapons they are otherwise forbidden to purchase.

"You either want felons to have guns or you don't,"

Kaine said on a morning radio show. "You want people who are mentally adjudicated to be dangerous to have guns or you don't. If you don't want them to, then you ought to close that gun show loophole."

In the wake of the April 16 shootings at Virginia Tech, the General Assembly this winter is expected to vigorously debate gun control. Seung-Hui Cho, an emotionally troubled Tech

senior, fatally shot 32 students and professors before killing himself.

In August, an eight-member task force appointed by Kaine to investigate the killings recommended in its final report that the gun show loophole be closed.

Former state police Superintendent Gerald Massengill, whom Kaine appointed to head the task force, has been calling for the end of the loophole in a series of speeches and interviews. Massengill has said the only exemption to background checks should be for gun sales and trades among family members.

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Kaine criticized the gun show exemption when he ran for governor in 2005 and in the days after the Tech shooting. He repeated his concern Tuesday in response to a listener's question during the governor's monthly call-in show on WTOP radio in Washington.

Later in the day, Gordon Hickey, Kaine's press secretary, said the governor has not decided whether he will spend political capital to expand background checks.

"Just because he said it doesn't make it the highest priority," Hickey said. "He hasn't gotten anywhere near making that kind of decision yet."

The legislation will travel an uphill road in the General

Assembly. Bills to close the gun show loophole have been defeated three years in a row in the state Senate. The House of Delegates, which has not taken up the measure recently, strongly backs gun rights.

Gun advocates note that Cho legally purchased his guns, even though he was held overnight in a mental hospital in 2005 and judged an "imminent danger" to himself. Because his hospitalization was brief, it was not reported to law enforcement officials and not detected on background checks when Cho bought firearms.

After the Tech shootings, Kaine issued more rigorous guidelines for reporting dangerous mental health problems to law enforcement officials.

House Majority Leader Morgan Griffith, R-Salem, said if the General Assembly "wants to make sure there's no repeat of Cho," it should focus on mental health reform, not gun control. "That's a much better long-term solution than taking away rights from law-abiding citizens," he said.

Warren Fiske, (804) 697-1565, warren.fiske@pilotonline.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: backgroundchecks; banglist; gunshows; kaine; secondamendment; vageneralassembly; vatech; vrginiatech

1 posted on 11/29/2007 1:31:05 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem
Under current law, background checks on buyers are not required by unlicensed dealers who privately sell and trade firearms at the shows

Is that for long guns or handguns, or both?

In CT. if you want to buy a handgun at a show, it's just as if you were in the gun store. Full background check, must have a CCW, etc.

2 posted on 11/29/2007 1:37:04 PM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: neverdem

b.s. Here is Ga. they run background checks in gun shows.


3 posted on 11/29/2007 1:37:38 PM PST by gedeon3
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To: neverdem
“Unlicensed Dealer” is an oxymoron, if you sell your car, does that make you a “Unlicensed Car Dealership”?
4 posted on 11/29/2007 1:41:16 PM PST by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Isaiah 3.3)
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To: gedeon3
I believe all FFL license holders still have to run a check (if you don't have a CCW permit).

Kaine's legislation would require any private individual selling a firearm to do a background check first, effectively requiring all sales go through a licensed dealer.

There's no such thing as a "private dealer". The reporter (as usual) hasn't a clue.

5 posted on 11/29/2007 1:42:11 PM PST by pierrem15 (Charles Martel: past and future of France)
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To: neverdem

Why not do background checks on workers to send the illegals packing for home!


6 posted on 11/29/2007 1:42:19 PM PST by mountainlyons (Hard core conservative)
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To: Puppage
It would be for both unless they were antiques of pre 1898 manufacture.
7 posted on 11/29/2007 1:42:45 PM PST by Truth29
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To: neverdem
Gun advocates note that Cho legally purchased his guns, even though he was held overnight in a mental hospital in 2005 and judged an "imminent danger" to himself. Because his hospitalization was brief, it was not reported to law enforcement officials and not detected on background checks when Cho bought firearms.

Of course that dolt Kaine never brings up this fact that his proposed restrictions would not have prevented Cho from killing.

What may have prevented Cho from killing is if someone on campus, other than himself, was armed. Of course, Kaine won't go there.

8 posted on 11/29/2007 1:43:19 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (No buy China!!)
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To: gedeon3
Here is Ga. they run background checks in gun shows.

...only if you're buying from a retail outfit with a booth at the show. There are a fair number of face-to-face private sales at the shows too.

That said, I don't see much distinction between an in-state, FTF transaction whether it's at a gunshow or over an internet equipment exchange or on the tailgate of my truck at the shooting range. This is just more anti-gun bravo sierra.

9 posted on 11/29/2007 1:43:35 PM PST by AngryJawa ({IDPA, NRA} All Hail John Moses Browning)
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To: neverdem
"You either want felons to have guns or you don't,"

Making it harder for innocent civilians to own firearms does not PROTECT innocent civilians from felonious actions.

Felons will get their hands on weapons no matter what Governors like this idiot try and pass into law. This isn't about "criminal control", it's just plain old CONTROL he is after.

This guy is either Stupid, Insane, or just plain Evil.

10 posted on 11/29/2007 1:43:44 PM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Puppage
unlicensed dealers who privately sell and trade firearms

That's a contradiction in terms. If someone is selling a firearm privately, HE'S NOT A DEALER. He's a private citizen.

The Eyebrow (Kaine) and the Virginian-Puke are lying to you.

11 posted on 11/29/2007 1:45:10 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: neverdem
"You either want felons to have guns or you don't,"

I'd rather arm felons than disarm non felons.

Besides, I assume that felons that want guns already have them.

But Guv, I'd say to you that you either want maximum freedom for your subjects or you don't.

12 posted on 11/29/2007 1:47:25 PM PST by Eagle Eye (If you agree with Democrats you agree with America's enemies.)
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To: neverdem
Kaine endorsed closing the loophole, saying it provides an opening for felons and mentally ill people to buy weapons they are otherwise forbidden to purchase.

"You either want felons to have guns or you don't,"

And I imagine in five or less years we will see the same quote used to "close the private sale loophole"

13 posted on 11/29/2007 1:49:09 PM PST by Domandred (Eagles soar, but unfortunately weasels never get sucked into jet engines)
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To: Eagle Eye

Good Lord.

A $50 fake ID fools NICS everytime; as long as the phony ID doesn’t have a record........


14 posted on 11/29/2007 1:49:45 PM PST by HD1200
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To: neverdem

More media “code” words. “Unlicensed Dealer” means an individual. So you can’t sell your property if it is a firearm unless it is through an “approved” network and sanctioned by the government.

The heck with that. If a citizen can’t be trusted with a firearm, they shouldn’t be loose.


15 posted on 11/29/2007 1:52:27 PM PST by johncatl (...governs least, governs best.)
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To: neverdem

NICS can’t prove you are not whom you tell it you are:

A. Undercover Agents Were Successful in All States Attempted
The GAO undercover agents were successful in purchasing firearms with false identifications from licensed dealers in all five states they attempted: Virginia, West Virginia,
Montana, New Mexico, and Arizona. Their success rate was 100%. In no instance did NICS background checks detect that the GAO agents were using false identifications, and in no
instance did gun dealers refrain from selling weapons to the agents. The GAO report is attached
as Exhibit 1 to this report.5

http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20040608092918-29119.pdf


16 posted on 11/29/2007 1:54:38 PM PST by HD1200
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To: VeniVidiVici

Thank you. Cho’s purchase was illegal, but the state of Virginia never forwarded the info to the feds Insta-check system.

The state completely failed it citizens and the students at VA Tech. Now, they want more laws.


17 posted on 11/29/2007 1:54:46 PM PST by dashing doofus (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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To: neverdem

What is it Red Forman used to say...? Dumb-a55!

Virginia does not place restrictions on sales of firearms between individuals. A gunshow is simply a venue, and a guy trying to sell off last season’s Marlin 30-30 is not a loophole, but a citizen looking to modify his collection.

ruefully


18 posted on 11/29/2007 1:54:50 PM PST by petro45acp (NO good endeavor survives an excess of "adult supervision" (read bureaucracy)!)
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To: HD1200
A $50 fake ID fools NICS everytime; as long as the phony ID doesn’t have a record........

Uh.....I wouldn't know!

19 posted on 11/29/2007 2:04:30 PM PST by Eagle Eye (If you agree with Democrats you agree with America's enemies.)
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To: HD1200

Thanks for the link.


20 posted on 11/29/2007 2:26:01 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem

I hope the people of Virginia are enjoying this POS. Yesterday he had another liberal proclamation that made Fox. To think that they are going to elect a solid dim government in ‘08 is sickening.

LLS


21 posted on 11/29/2007 2:26:06 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: LibLieSlayer
Please don't blame all of us. I came back early from a vacation to make sure I voted against this er, individual, Kaine. The northern parts of the state have become infested with bureaucrats and members of the chattering classes.

In Alexandria City, we couldn't elect an African American Republican to the Council, by, like, 187 votes or something crazy like that. Don't blame me -- I vote at every election.

I used to say, at least Virginia is not Maryland, or not DC, but that may not be applicable anymore.

The Gilmore-Warner Senate race should be interesting....

22 posted on 11/29/2007 2:34:40 PM PST by elk
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To: Puppage

They want to close the “loophole” that allows INDIVIDUALS to sell guns to each other.


23 posted on 11/29/2007 2:55:14 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: neverdem

The Virginia Tech teachers think they should be allowed to carry their weapons on campus, to stop nuts like Chou.

The constitution is on their side. Right to Keep and BEAR arms.

But still the public entity prohibits them from protecting themselves.


24 posted on 11/29/2007 3:19:07 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT (The Swiss Ninja.)
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To: neverdem

Under current law, background checks on buyers are not required by unlicensed dealers who privately sell and trade firearms at the shows.


“Unlicensed Dealer.”

That’s an oxymoron. All dealers are licensed. People who are unlicensed aren’t dealers.

The correct phase is “(unlicensed, if you must) private sellers.”


25 posted on 11/29/2007 3:19:53 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them, I won't chip away at them" -Mitt Romney)
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To: padre35

You got it. “Unlicensed Dealer” means guy who owns a gun and wants to sell it.

They want to institute checks for EVERY transfer of gun ownership.


26 posted on 11/29/2007 3:20:16 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT (The Swiss Ninja.)
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To: neverdem

There’s no such thing as an unlicenced dealer. How did this foll become Gov? Are most of the folks in VA dumber than he is?


27 posted on 11/29/2007 3:24:08 PM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: neverdem
I see Virginia is enjoying the fruits of electing a Democrat. I was on travel in northern Virginia when Kaine was campaigning. He struck me as a dork. His behavior doesn't surprise me.
28 posted on 11/29/2007 3:24:47 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: elk
I apologize for stating what I was trying to say in that way. I meant is sarcastically and it sounded so literal. I know Virginia is almost evenly split. I love the State and pray it returns to Conservative dominance. GOD bless you for fighting the good fight!

LLS

29 posted on 11/29/2007 3:28:44 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: elk

“The Gilmore-Warner race should be interesting”

I hope you are right. My guess is that Gilmore gets 35 to 40 percent. He really lacks the ability to inspire anyone.


30 posted on 11/29/2007 3:29:59 PM PST by SWEETSUNNYSOUTH (Help stamp out liberalism!)
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To: ArrogantBustard
"unlicensed dealers who privately sell and trade firearms..."

"That's a contradiction in terms. If someone is selling a firearm privately, HE'S NOT A DEALER. He's a private citizen."

No it isn't. A deal is a deal with or without a license. You think drug dealers have a license?

31 posted on 11/29/2007 4:37:05 PM PST by avacado
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To: neverdem
Former state police Superintendent Gerald Massengill,

Never trust a halfa== viginia cop.

32 posted on 11/29/2007 4:39:19 PM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: neverdem
Kaine said on a morning radio show. "You want people who are mentally adjudicated to be dangerous to have guns or you don't. If you don't want them to, then you ought to close that gun show loophole."

You want people who are mentally adjudicated to be dangerous to be free to walk on the streets or you don't. If you don't want them to, then you ought to close that parole loophole.

33 posted on 11/29/2007 5:05:35 PM PST by lowbridge
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To: avacado
You think drug dealers have a license?

Absolutely.

They're called Pharmacists ;-)

34 posted on 11/29/2007 5:06:27 PM PST by lowbridge
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To: dashing doofus
Thank you. Cho’s purchase was illegal...

Was it actually? I thought that the judge believed Cho to be unstable, but did not legally rule that he posed a danger to others.

35 posted on 11/29/2007 5:28:09 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: neverdem
"You either want felons to have guns or you don't,"

Yeah, but a background check will no longer indicate whether someone has actually been convicted of anything by due process of law, will it? Won't it also now flag lots of other people who have not received due process?

36 posted on 11/29/2007 5:30:44 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: lowbridge

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one! You got me!


37 posted on 11/29/2007 5:31:43 PM PST by avacado
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To: HD1200
NICS is useless and a waste of money. Eliminate it and send the money to the DoD for use in a Constitutional federal government function, like kicking Jihadi A$$.
38 posted on 11/29/2007 5:32:39 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: elk
elk, I'm doing my part here in Virginia Beach. One of the reasons I moved
here 2-years ago was because of the CCW laws.

Kaine is a failure as a Govnerd in so many ways. Maybe we can get Allen
to kick his ass to the curb. I'll be campaigning for anyone running against him.

39 posted on 11/29/2007 5:55:29 PM PST by MaxMax (God Bless America)
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To: neverdem
No surprise here. When the Gov was mayor of Richmond, he used city money to bus people to the Million Moron Mom March.

What is happening to my state? It's scary!
40 posted on 11/30/2007 2:32:09 AM PST by GodBlessRonaldReagan (Big dog, big dog, bow-wow-wow! We'll crush crime, now, now, now!)
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To: HD1200
NICS can’t prove you are not whom you tell it you are:

...I can't find it right now, but I believe Virginia Driver Licenses are the most duplicated of all the 50 states because the state hands them out like candy to anyone.

41 posted on 11/30/2007 5:00:56 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: supercat

Well, I’m going literally by the questionaire in ATF form 4473, which inquires about being adjudicated mentally defective. Since a court did rule so, and he was to have received outpatient treatment, I believe question 12f should have precluded his purchase of a firearm. Problem is, the state of Virginia did not get that info into the NICS database. I see news today that many states are now providing this info.

I see this as another case of failing to enforce laws which are already on the books. But, of course, pols are suggesting that new laws are needed.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/


42 posted on 11/30/2007 8:25:05 AM PST by dashing doofus (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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To: johncatl
If a citizen can’t be trusted with a firearm, they shouldn’t be loose.

BINGO!

43 posted on 11/30/2007 8:27:22 AM PST by dfwgator
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