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If children are treated like prisoners in buildings that look like minimum security prisons, if they are marched aroung like herds of sheep to the sound of Pavlov's bell, if they isolated in unnatural same-aged packs, is it any wonder that they form protection gangs ( cliques) and bully? Is it any wonder that the school employees find themselves acting like bullies themselves? Should we be surprised that we read, nearly daily, of teachers sexually abusing their charges?

I don't think it is surprising we see such dysfunctional behavior. It is not normal to treat children this way. In fact, I call it abusive. In more than 150,000 years of human existence we have never done this to children. Our human ancestors, if they could see the huge, modern, factory-like schools ( that look very much like minimum security prisons) that children must endure every day, would be blinking in surprise and confusion that we would do this to children

The author of the study writes that 45% of teachers admitted to bullying. I conclude that the actual incidence is higher.

1 posted on 12/03/2007 2:44:23 PM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime
metmom.

Please ping homeschool and public school.

Thank you.

2 posted on 12/03/2007 2:46:49 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime

Our daughter had a teacher like that in the first grade. She was dreadful.....nicknamed the child Messy Jesse because, well, it rhymes! She duct taped a child to his chair to teach him to sit still. Cruel and mean spirited. And protected by tenure.

We were able to get her away from our child, but not out of the school.


3 posted on 12/03/2007 2:48:23 PM PST by trimom
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To: wintertime

IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY PUDDING!!! HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT?!?

5 posted on 12/03/2007 2:51:59 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: wintertime

I agree. Teacher bullying was one of the major reasons I started homeschooling.


6 posted on 12/03/2007 2:52:16 PM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: wintertime

The best teacher I ever had, both showed love and discipline. And he did it all while being a great example of both.

He even threw me off of the bleachers once in frustration and he still is head and shoulders above all others.

RIP Mr. Sonneman


7 posted on 12/03/2007 2:53:25 PM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (There once was a dream called, "Hippy Beat Down." The mere whisper of if caused cops to weep.)
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To: wintertime
I can recall two instances with two different teachers, in which I was ridiculed in front of the class who then laughed uproariously.

I hated them passionately. Forty years later I still feel like spitting when I visualize their faces. Grrrr!

8 posted on 12/03/2007 2:58:15 PM PST by Max in Utah (If your neighbors habitually trespassed, wouldn't you want a nice tall fence with razor wire on top?)
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To: wintertime
Teachers Who Bully ( We shouldn't be surprised)

I'd guess that they fall into 2 categories:
1. Teachers that are coaches...and that "bullying" (aka motivating!)
is part of their job.

OR

2. Teachers that are leftist nut-jobs, ready to hand out a "C-minus"
or worse to any student questioning the Marxist-Maoist-Stalinist
paradigm.
And ready to flunk anyone that exposes them to the rest of the class
as a pithed-frog-brain Commie nutburger.
14 posted on 12/03/2007 3:04:38 PM PST by VOA
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To: abclily; aberaussie; albertp; AliVeritas; Amelia; AnAmericanMother; andie74; AVNevis; bannie; ...

Public Education Ping

This list is for articles relating to public education. mcvey and republican professor have asked me to take over the list. If you want on or off this ping list, please FReepmail me.
17 posted on 12/03/2007 3:05:11 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wintertime
My child's kindergarden teacher was a bully. We tried to work with her, then the principal, to resolve the problems in her classroom. No luck. We had to remove our child from the school and enroll him somewhere else. We heard countless stories from parents who had their children in that teacher's class in previous years as well as stories from current and former teachers aides. The teacher is just plain mean and the children perform purely out of fear. While her attitude may not be as inappropriate at a later grade level, it is terrible to do what she's done to kindergarden kids.

My child has been in the new school with a better teacher for 3 weeks now and the difference has been night and day

21 posted on 12/03/2007 3:11:35 PM PST by Spiff ("Mike Huckabee raised more taxes in 10 years in office than Bill Clinton did in his 12 years.")
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To: wintertime
I had a math teacher back in junior high that was one of the meanest most insufferable people I had ever met. One day, a few of us decided to give some of it back to her, so we got one of those pull-apart firecrackers and, while she was out of the classroom, tied one end to her chair leg and the other to her desk.

When she came back in and pulled out her chair, the cracker went off and she levitated about a foot off the floor. She was so mad, she kept us all after school for an hour and a half that day.

At the end of the school year, she came up to me and said, "you know, the reason I was so hard on you kids is because I wanted you all to succeed."

I felt really, really bad, but there was no way I was gonna admit my part in it!
22 posted on 12/03/2007 3:12:31 PM PST by reagan_fanatic (Ron Paul put the cuckoo in my Cocoa Puffs)
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To: wintertime
Penguins Live!!!

Teachers in article bring back terrible memories of the nuns in my elementary school. They slapped kids. Threw a kid at the blackboard which came crashing down. Put kids in the wastepaper basket while mocking them openly for a shirt sticking out of their pants. ...too many disturbing memories

26 posted on 12/03/2007 3:18:43 PM PST by xtinct (I was the next door neighbor kid's imaginary friend.)
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To: wintertime
I remember seeing many incidents of teacher bullying of other students.

One that I remember to this day is when she had a little boy come up in front of the class and tell everyone how filthy his ears were.

Not kidding. This little kid grew up to become a Vietnam casualty.

One more: a little girl peed in her pants in gym class...and the phys ed teacher had her stand apart from everyone else.

There is a special place in hell for these scumbag teachers.

Get rid of unions.

32 posted on 12/03/2007 3:34:41 PM PST by eleni121 ((+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: wintertime

Memories of first grade. The teacher brought a terrarium to school and asked the class what it was. I was was the only one who answered “terrarium” and was sent to the office for being a “smart-alec”.

I’m colorblind and once colored a dog green in 1st grade. The same teacher held it up and had the whole class laugh at me.

My Mom had some car troubles one week and I was late almost every day that week. The same teacher had the whole class pretend to look at their watches and chide me when I was late...in 1st grade. This from a woman who could not pronounce the three letter word “ask”.

I finally told my Mom about those incidents. I will never forget the look on that woman’s face when my Mom came into class with me and threatened to drag her out in the parking lot and beat the hell out of her.

I didn’t have any more problems after that.


33 posted on 12/03/2007 3:35:10 PM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: wintertime

“If children are treated like prisoners in buildings that look like minimum security prisons, if they are marched around like herds of sheep to the sound of Pavlov’s bell, if they are isolated in unnatural same-aged packs, is it any wonder that they form protection gangs ( cliques) and bully?”

Actually, I substitute taught in something like that environment, and in some circumstances, it is not as bad as you think.

This particular school had the reputation of the most troublesome in a large metro area. It really was a “minimum security educational experience”, but it was the opposite of what you might expect. The security was to keep dangerous adults out, and to protect the children in school. It had a squad of security people, a few of whom were armed, and whose main job it was to keep such adults off campus.

Students did not have lockers. They had one set of books for classroom use, and the other set they left at home. Thus no need for backpacks, and so few weapons.

In personality, there were many “normal” students, but there were also both students who felt utterly defeated by their circumstances and desperately needed motivation, and a third group with burning ambition and determination to succeed.

Of course, most of the problems were found in the “defeated” group. In a short time, I steered many of these toward joining the military, and was honest that it was their best chance of ever having a chance. Even those migrating towards gangs realized that it was a dead end and that they would probably be dead before the age of 25, so I didn’t have to use a hard sell.

As a substitute, I was popular with teachers because I looked and acted fearsome. This quickly ended student efforts to pull fast ones, which they did, but left me room to slack off a bit and relax the room when things permitted.

In one class, after the students were at work, I noticed a table with two grossly obese boys at it, too large to fit in ordinary desks, and looking sullen and hostile. I made it a point to approach the angrier of the two, and used a line something like which they had probably heard many times before.

“I used to know a guy who looked like you in high school.”

Typically, such an opener would be used to sneer at them for being obese, and to offer up some obviously stale advice. But I didn’t do that. Instead, I followed up by telling him the true story of the man.

“He and his brother opened a pizza place, which became a chain. They sold it ten years later and made a few million.”

Once that had sunk in, both boys looked utterly perplexed.

For the first time in years, somebody had indirectly suggested that something good might happen to them, that they were not total losers because they were obese. That they still had potential.

Days later, that teacher sought me out and asked what had happened, because both boys had suddenly become interested in school again and were no longer perpetually sulking and angry.

Things like that can happen in “bad” schools, and a lot more often than that much of a difference can be made in a “good” school.


34 posted on 12/03/2007 3:35:14 PM PST by Popocatapetl
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To: wintertime
There was a teacher at my school who would walk up behind you while waiting for the bus and try a Vulcan neck pinch while waiting in line.

He wasn't even my teacher, unprovked and always performed it on the last kid in line some no one saw him.

I forget his name but can you imagine someone pulling this crap today?

I never told my parents figured I would get in trouble for reporting it.

Scrawny little scumbag, if I could travel back in time he'd get a swift kick in the family Jewels.

43 posted on 12/03/2007 4:06:47 PM PST by #1CTYankee (That's right, I have no proof. So what of it??)
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To: wintertime
... if they are marched around like herds of sheep to the sound of Pavlov’s bell....It is not normal to treat children this way. In fact, I call it abusive.

***

Right - Pavlov’s Classical conditioning and Behaviorism is for dogs, not for humans made in the image of God.

Public schools are not the only place you will see humans being treated like dogs. There is an urgency in the air, humans must be conditioned / homogenized as quickly as possible for the good of all!

There are plenty of dysfunctional churches and church schools dehumanizing people/children also, treating them like dogs to get them to more quickly comply, conform and submit these days - so folks watch out.

There is a new tower of babel to be built and the wolves are everywhere. The falling away is happening faster everyday. Don’t be surprised at how much fun they seem to be having abusing the sheep either - just run as fast as you can before they devour you.

51 posted on 12/03/2007 4:36:29 PM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: wintertime
biting sarcasm to humiliate a child in front of the class?

sounds like my high school geometry teacher...

55 posted on 12/03/2007 4:43:06 PM PST by latina4dubya
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To: wintertime

This is an enormous pant load of merde. As if teachers have ANY disciplinary weapons at their disposal any more. You want to see bullying? Sit in the principal’s office with a rabid parent of a budding sociopath.


62 posted on 12/03/2007 5:01:09 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: wintertime
If children are treated like prisoners in buildings that look like minimum security prisons, if they are marched aroung like herds of sheep to the sound of Pavlov's bell, if they isolated in unnatural same-aged packs, is it any wonder that they form protection gangs ( cliques) and bully? Is it any wonder that the school employees find themselves acting like bullies themselves?

The Stanford prison experiment should answer that.

65 posted on 12/03/2007 5:15:00 PM PST by Sloth (Democrats and GOPers are to government what Jeffrey Dahmer and Michael Jackson are to babysitting)
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To: wintertime; SoftballMominVA; shag377; metmom; JenB
Not denying that some teachers do go over the line, and always have, but did we worry about it nearly so much before we became so concerned about Little Johnny's "self-esteem"?

Most of the "horror stories" people are relating on this thread appear to be from "the good old days" when we supposedly still had prayer & discipline in schools, and people still got a good education.

According to my friend who went to school in an Asian country, teachers there have no compunctions about humiliating students who act out or don't perform as well as they could.

I'm not advocating cruelty, but this seems to me like a very thinly-veiled touchy-feely liberal educrat article.

72 posted on 12/03/2007 6:38:33 PM PST by Amelia
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